Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

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We_Are_VENOM
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Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

Post #1

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

.

I think it is important all Christians ask ourselves that question. Lets get right into it.

My former view: The “Passover is for the Jews, but I am a Christian”. My view was, the Passover was just a Jewish thing, along with many of the other holy days/festivals of the old testament.

My view was also that the old testament is a rich source of great history pertaining to God and how he dealt with his chosen people. However, most of that stuff didn’t translate over to Christianity, which is the “new stuff”…the “new covenant” with Jesus Christ.

Well, that is what I used to think..however…

What had happened was: Over the past 3 years (on and off), I’ve been partaking in Bible studies with a particular Christian denomination. They called themselves World Mission Society Church of God (WMSCOG). I had never heard of them until recent, and if you aren’t familiar with them, they have a very unorthodox way of Bible interpretation and with that comes, of course, very “wacky” Biblical doctrines.

For example, their most infamous doctrine is perhaps the teaching that there is a “Mother” God, along with God the “Father”. Need I say more? (and that isn’t even the tip of the iceberg).

Another thing that stands out, is that they are somehow/someway able to translate a lot of Old Testament teachings over to the New Testament…and after studying with them, you will find yourself not being able to take almost anything literally in the Bible…because with them, they take even basic Biblical teachings in some symbolic or metaphorical way.

Now, I said all of that to say this; me and a particular fellow (lets call him Ollie) from the WMSCOG have been studying off and on for the past 3 years. We’ve had long, mentally DRAINING discussions…our discussions include questions like..

1. Is Ahn Sahng-hong (their church founder) Jesus Christ? It is what they believe.

2. Is baptism required for salvation? It is what they believe.

3. Is there a “Mother” God? It is what they believe.

4. Is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit the same person? It is what they believe.

5. Is the commemoration/celebration of the Passover a requirement for salvation? It is what they believe.

That being said, I found myself disagreeing with all 5 of those. But what I can’t deny is, the fact that on most of the conversations that me and Ollie have had, Ollie has made compelling Biblical cases for almost all of those topics.

I’ve found myself admitting (even to him), that “even though I disagree with you, I can see where you are coming from”.

Now, this thread is being created based on something that he was able to convince me of, which is that Christians should celebrate the Passover…now, is the Passover a requirement for salvation? I have mixed views on this, depending on the day.

However, I am convinced that the Passover is a commandment by God, not just to the Jews, but for Christians as well.

Ollie was able to convince me by taking old testament scriptures, and harmonizing them with new testament verses…and making it all one cohesive unit.

After putting up so much resistance to his case, I finally had to bow down to the truth of the matter, in the affirmative.

Some of you may already be familiar with his case, but I certainly was not. Apparently, I need to read my Bible more. I mean, I thought I knew my Bible..but there are levels to this.

So, what was his case? See below…
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Re: Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

Post #51

Post by benchwarmer »

Clearly we are talking past each other at this point, so I'm going to circle back to the main point of the OP.
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:30 pm
benchwarmer wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:08 pm Maybe I should point out some of the other ones before you go breaking more laws. You don't eat bacon do you?
I do. Why do I? Because Jesus declared all foods clean (Mark 7:19).

This is an epic failure of a "gotcha" moment. LOL.
You sure about that?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Has the Earth disappeared and we didn't notice? Has everything been accomplished? You are still here and not in heaven right? Still LOLing?

Seems you have a conundrum to solve. Might be time to rethink the bacon eating. Or go for "Mosaic law only applies to Jews". Or something. Trying to come up with a mix is just cherry picking. Good luck!

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Re: Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

Post #52

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

benchwarmer wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:38 pm Clearly we are talking past each other at this point, so I'm going to circle back to the main point of the OP.
Great idea.
benchwarmer wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:08 pm
You sure about that?

Has the Earth disappeared and we didn't notice? Has everything been accomplished? You are still here and not in heaven right? Still LOLing?

Seems you have a conundrum to solve. Might be time to rethink the bacon eating. Or go for "Mosaic law only applies to Jews". Or something. Trying to come up with a mix is just cherry picking. Good luck!
Or, I can just go by what Mark 7:19 explicitly states, which is clearly that all food was declared clean.

There are many commentaries given on Matthew 5:18, and I am not going to assume that the author of Matthew blatantly has Jesus contradicting himself in just a matter of verses...because Jesus appears to go on and make little tweaks to the law as he gave the sermon, after he had just stated what he stated in Matt 5:17-18.

So again, either the author of Matthew was so naive to have Jesus contradicting himself in a matter of verses, OR we need to have a better understanding of what Jesus meant in Matthew 5:17-18.

Now of course, you may find this response unsatisfactory, being the unbelieving skeptic that you are.

However, being the believer that I am, I am confident that I am more favored by God than you are, thus making your opinion and attitude towards this matter about as irrelevant as can be.

It is similar to a homeless guy telling a millionaire that is living in a mansion, that his house is too big.

Okkkk, I will rather have my problem, than yours.

:D

You can have the last word here, btw...considering the OP is about the Passover and I spent too much time talking to you about everything BUT the Passover.
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Re: Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

Post #53

Post by benchwarmer »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:48 pm You can have the last word here, btw...considering the OP is about the Passover and I spent too much time talking to you about everything BUT the Passover.
Sure, if you like. My points did tie in to the Passover, but I can see how we got caught in the weeds.

You seem to be ok dismissing Matthew 5:18 which I see as an extremely clear message and even gives observational points to check. I understand that there are contradictions in lots of places in the Bible. For me, this only points to further proof we are witnessing the fingerprints of man, not a god on the writings. This has really been my entire point.

You are asking if Christians are required to celebrate the Passover. I'm pointing out that you can cherry pick pieces of scripture to give you any answer you like. Trying to harmonize the entire Bible is an exercise that has led to many a deconversion. You admit you have not even read the entire Bible yet. Enjoy the journey when you begin that adventure. Try to put aside your preconceptions when you do and ask lots of questions. Perhaps your faith will survive and even be stronger for it. It may not sound like it, but I'm not actually rooting for you to lose your faith. Just trying to get you and readers to really tackle the same questions I had.

Have fun!

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Re: Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

Post #54

Post by JehovahsWitness »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:37 pm
My bad...I meant when do we stop commemorating man's freedom from bondage of sin.
We dont commemorate man's freedom from bondage of sin.


JW

ROMANS 7:24, 25

Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

Post #55

Post by JehovahsWitness »

benchwarmer wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:44 am Can Christians now ignore ALL Mosaic Law or just the pieces various religious organizations find inconvenient?
I dont believe it would be a good idea to "ignore" the Mosaic law since they are part of the inspired word of God and spiritualy useful and upbuildjng. That said, Christians are not under obligation to keep ANY of the Mosaic laws as the Christian scripure say they have been abolished.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS



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Re: Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

Post #56

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:30 am
We dont commemorate man's freedom from bondage of sin.


JW
It is all tied together, JW.

The first Passover was kept to commemorate God sparing the Israelites from his wrath and also a pathway to their freedom (slave bondage).

The second Passover is also kept to commemorate God sparing us from his wrath and also a pathway to our freedom of being slaves to sin.

It all ties together.
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Re: Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

Post #57

Post by JehovahsWitness »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:52 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:30 am
We dont commemorate man's freedom from bondage of sin.


JW
It is all tied together, JW.


Are you calling me a liar? We (as in Jehovahs Witnesses ) do NOT commemorate man's freedom from bondage of sin. You might, we don't. Its not a debatable point, its a statement of fact. Jehovahs Witnesses only have ONE commemorative ceremony, and it is to commemorate the DEATH of Christ Jesus.

If you can find anything on our official website that claims otherwise feel free to present it.
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Re: Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

Post #58

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:01 pm Are you calling me a liar? We (as in Jehovahs Witnesses ) do NOT commemorate man's freedom from bondage of sin. You might, we don't. Its not a debatable point, its a statement of fact. Jehovahs Witnesses only have ONE commemorative ceremony, and it is to commemorate the DEATH of Christ Jesus.

If you can find anything on our official website that claims otherwise feel free to present it.
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Re: Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

Post #59

Post by thomasdixon »

(Exo 12:21 KJV) Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the Passover.

(Exo 12:26 KJV) And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?

(Exo 12:27 KJV) That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S Passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

(Exo 12:28 KJV) And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

(Exo 12:29) And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that {was} in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

(Exo 12:30 KJV) And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.

I ask; why do they celebrate “Passover” knowing that during that night many, many lives were murdered.

Now that I know what “Passover” is really all about, I can not “celebrate” the murder of all first born knowing that all those who marked their doors knew what was coming, a mass murder that they could have stopped.

Please tell me why you celebrate such a horrific mass murder?

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Re: Is Celebration of Passover a Requirement for Salvation?

Post #60

Post by thomasdixon »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:01 pmJehovahs Witnesses only have ONE commemorative ceremony, and it is to commemorate the DEATH of Christ Jesus.
Personally I could NOT celebrate the death of Jesus, having said that, do you know why Jesus was murdered?
The Truth About Jesus’ Death

Jesus taught us how to be kind to others, as in the stranger but most of all Jesus used the Book of Ezekiel, the third of the Latter Prophets in the Tanakh and one of the major prophetic books in the Old Testament. It records six visions of the prophet Ezekiel, exiled in Babylon, during the 22 years from 593 to 571 BC.
Book of Ezekiel – Wikipedia

During this period Jerusalem was under the rule of the Romans which the local community strongly rejected.
in Palestine there were a number of occasions when more restless elements in the population resisted Roman abuses and followed the tradition of “zealousness for the Law.”

under the Romans (ruled 37-4 B.C.E.). Herod surrounded himself with Greek scholars and undertook many building projects, including a magnificent and fortified palace. He rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem.
Before he died, Jesus of Nazareth was born.

The history of the Jews in the Roman Empire
Rebellion in Judaea
Although Judaea was ruled by the Romans, the governors there had practiced the same kind of religious tolerance as was shown to Jews in Rome.

The history of Palestine is the study of the past in the region of Palestine, defined as the territory between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.

The crucifixion of Jesus occurred in 1st-century Judea, most likely in either AD 30 or AD 33. According to the canonical gospels Jesus was arrested and tried by the Sanhedrin, and then sentenced by Pontius Pilate to be scourged, and finally crucified by the Romans.
Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia

In the canonical gospels, Pilate's court refers to the trial of Jesus in praetorium before Pontius Pilate, preceded by the Sanhedrin Trial. After questioning Jesus and receiving very few replies, Herod sees Jesus as no threat and returns him to Pilate.

At the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate. This was said after learning that Jesus did not wish to claim any terrestrial kingdom. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge.
Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus,
Pilate's court - Wikipedia

Early in the morning the chief priests and elders planned to have Jesus executed.
Pilate had Jesus flogged. Soldiers put a crown of thorns and purple robe on Jesus, hit his face and mocked him saying: 'Hail, king of the Jews!'

Chief priests [Rabbis] and officials shouted: 'Crucify! Crucify!'
Pilate: 'Go ahead and crucify him. I myself find no guilt in him.

Pilate, interrogated Jesus inside. Jesus: 'You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.' Pilate tried to set Jesus free.
Jewish leaders [Rabbis]: 'If you let him go, you disobey Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.'

Pilate brought out Jesus around noon, saying: 'Here is your king.' They shouted: 'Take him away, crucify him!'


Pilate handed Jesus over to them for crucifixion.

Pilate: 'You are a king, then!' Jesus: 'You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.' Pilate: 'What is truth?'

Pilate, outside: 'I find no guilt in him.'

In the New Testament, the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus refers to the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin (a Jewish judicial body) (NOTE: the Jewish leaders were Rabbis) following his arrest in Jerusalem and prior to the trial before Pontius Pilate.

Jesus is generally quiet, does not mount a defense, and rarely responds to the accusations, and is found guilty of various offenses.
Sanhedrin trial of Jesus - Wikipedia

Jewish tradition and texts portray the Sanhedrin to be an established court [all of them were rabbis], based in Jerusalem with strict guidelines on how to function.

Thereafter, in Pilate's Court, the Jewish elders [Rabbis] ask Pontius Pilate to judge and condemn Jesus, accusing him of claiming to be the King of the Jews. Such a claim would be considered treasonous, for being a direct challenge to the Roman authorities.

In conclusion, after reviewing all the available written facts concerning Jesus Christ, I find overwhelming evidence that Jesus Christ did not die for our sins but was murdered by the Romans, at the request of the local Rabbis in Jerusalem and in return, the revolt against the Roman occupation would stop.

Jesus was teaching the Book of Ezekiel which portrayed the Jewish people badly.
The Rabbis wanted Jesus’ to shut up and the Romans wanted the rebellion to stop. Having Jesus killed solved both problems.

8-)

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