The Biblical Jesus - John 10:38

[William]

“But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”

Q: Should all the actions attributed to the biblical Jesus be taken literally?

[Miles]

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Q: Should all the actions attributed to the biblical Jesus be taken literally?

Nope. Even if I was a Christian I wouldn't buy all of stories told about him. At least I hope I wouldn't.


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[William]

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Q: Should all the actions attributed to the biblical Jesus be taken literally?

Nope. Even if I was a Christian I wouldn't buy all of stories told about him. At least I hope I wouldn't.


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Can you give some examples as to what actions attributed to biblical Jesus, you would not take literally?

[Miles]

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Q: Should all the actions attributed to the biblical Jesus be taken literally?

Nope. Even if I was a Christian I wouldn't buy all of stories told about him. At least I hope I wouldn't.


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Can you give some examples as to what actions attributed to biblical Jesus, you would not take literally?

Not being a Christian I can only speculate, but I'm pretty sure I'd have to drop his so-called miracles.


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[William]

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Q: Should all the actions attributed to the biblical Jesus be taken literally?

Nope. Even if I was a Christian I wouldn't buy all of stories told about him. At least I hope I wouldn't.


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Can you give some examples as to what actions attributed to biblical Jesus, you would not take literally?

Not being a Christian I can only speculate, but I'm pretty sure I'd have to drop his so-called miracles.


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It is interesting that those things are called "miracles" and not "magic". Perhaps changing the word somehow legitimizes the practice.

[HarlanGeorge]

[Replying to William in post #1]

You would have to include Jesus' quote found in the book of Mark 13:24-31 where he told the disciples that the end of the world will occur within their lifetimes. Meaning that Judgement day will occur soon, in fact so soon that before you die it will begin. Now I am certain there are any number of apologists and fundamentalists that can easily spin this by interpreting it differently but in truth, Jesus prediction fooled the disciples as they awaited the return of god. This trickery seems to be one of the mantras of Christianity that continues to this day. Dangle that carrot in front of your adherents and watch how that controls them. The issue arises when time continues to pass and more and more start to question this theology. Martin Luther as well as many reformers of the 16th Century thought the world would end in their lifetime as did countless others over the last several thousand years. Speak with anyone who had been fully indoctrinated into Christianity and it's very likely they will have a theory as to when the world is ending and often it's quite soon.

[PinSeeker]

You would have to include Jesus' quote found in the book of Mark 13:24-31 where he told the disciples that the end of the world will occur within their lifetimes. Meaning that Judgement day will occur soon, in fact so soon that before you die it will begin.

Not what He said at all. A very common misunderstanding, but certainly not indicative of ignorance or stupidity, of course.

Aside from that, certainly, Jesus told parables that were indicative of truths, but in fact fictional. But His words and actions, no matter what anyone wants to call them, are related by the gospel writers and the apostles as actual, historical events. Everyone then, now, and... well, until Jesus comes back... is welcome to his/her opinion concerning whether the events are actually historical or not. Even Albert Einstein.

Now I am certain there are any number of apologists and fundamentalists that can easily spin this by interpreting it differently but in truth, Jesus prediction fooled the disciples as they awaited the return of god.

Nah, I mean, the only thing that can really be said is that it may have fooled some, but we really have no idea. For the most part, what was related were Jesus's utterances. No writer -- Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, or any of them, ever offers any further explanation of their own concerning what Jesus said in Mark 13:24-31.

Martin Luther as well as many reformers of the 16th Century thought the world would end in their lifetime as did countless others over the last several thousand years.

Sure, but that means nothing. In any century (or millennium), all Christians -- well, all who know to at least some degree and believe Scripture -- would readily acknowledge what Jesus says in Matthew 24:36-44, that "...concerning that day and hour no one knows... but the Father only...", that we must all, always, at all times, "...stay awake, for (we) do not know on what day (our) Lord is coming...", that "...(we) must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour (we) do not expect." The reformers (Martin Luther, John Calvin, Jonathan Edwards, and those who have come after) knew this full well, without a doubt, as do we today.

Speak with anyone who had been fully indoctrinated into Christianity and it's very likely they will have a theory as to when the world is ending and often it's quite soon.

I mean, I've been "fully indoctrinated," so to speak (really, converted, by the Holy Spirit), and my only absolute certainty concerning this subject, really, is that the world as we know it now will end at some point -- really, this age, not the world -- and it could be quite soon. Ergo, I am awake and at the ready. It may happen before I pass this world, but it may not... I feel certain that Martin Luther and John Calvin and the other reformers would have said the same... because... you know... they... did.

Grace and peace to all.

[tam]

Peace to you,

“But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”

Q: Should all the actions attributed to the biblical Jesus be taken literally?

Off the top of my head, I cannot think of any action in the testimonial accounts as being something other than literal. He calmed the storm, He walked on water, He saved the life of the woman to be stoned for adultery, she later literally washed His feet with her tears, He brought Lazarus back from the dead, He was arrested, crucified, resurrected. He ate and drank with His disciples (before and after His resurrection), He healed the lepers, He healed the woman who had been bleeding for many many years, He prayed, etc, etc. The accounts are testimonies of what people saw themselves (such as in the case of "John") or what other witnesses passed down from what they saw (such as in the case of Luke).

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught. Luke 1:1-4

An eyewitness tends to be someone who has literally witnessed actual occurrences. I see no hint of symbolism or metaphorical occurrences in this introduction. Nor in the following from John (chapters 20 and 21):

[Jesus] performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.

and,

This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.

[Jesus] did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.




The book of Revelation however - although containing what John saw and heard - does contain symbolism (not just symbolism, per se, but John's description of things he saw in the future in which he would have had to describe those things using terms that he knew). Christ still does the things that John saw Him do, but one would need to come to Him (to Christ) to understand the 'symbolism' of what those things are.

Of course, if one wishes to know for sure on this or any other matter, then one should come to Christ and ask Him for the truth.



Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[otseng]

but certainly not indicative of ignorance or stupidity, of course.

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[We_Are_VENOM]

“But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”

Q: Should all the actions attributed to the biblical Jesus be taken literally?

The short answer: Yes.

The long answer: Yes, certainly.