#1 Jesus on hell

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Wootah
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#1 Jesus on hell

Post #1

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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?v ... 18%3A21-35
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down [a]at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [c]his trespasses.”


Jesus tells a parable where the master actually tortures the unforgiving servant until he pays all that was due to him and after the parable says God will do this to each of us if we do not forgive each other.

* You can't torture a dead person or an annihilated person, so we know we have to be alive to be tortured.
* We can't pay our debt against God so we know the punishment is eternal.

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #281

Post by JoeyKnothead »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:43 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:33 pm One sign of the end times is that the gospel must first be preached in the entire world before the end of this age, the age of man, occurs:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

And the gospel must first be published among all nations. (Mark 13:10)
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:33 pmPublished like a book, or just told to a given percentage of a population?
Everyone must understand the gospel message, by whatever means.
Gospel means the good news of Christ and His teachings in the scriptures. The "Great Commission" commands Christians to spread the gospel among all nations:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:33 pmThe inhabitants of North Sentinel Island off of India don't allow vistors. What then?
There's the internet and other means.
But shortly before the end of the age, God has to send an angel to fulfill this prophecy before the end of this age can occur:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

Therefore, Christians will not succeed in preaching the gospel to all the nations!
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:33 pmSo they have to fulfill the one prophecy up top there, but they'll fail?

How's that work?
The gospel must be preached to all the world before the end of time occurs. It doesn't have to be accomplished by Christians.

Christians were assigned that task. But they fail at it.

So God sends an angel to carry out that work.
Ah, where humans fail, God will provide. I can see the theology in that.

Thanks much for your patience and schoolings.
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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #282

Post by myth-one.com »


Regarding the gospel, PinSeeker wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:47 pm
I would try understanding it yourself first.

OK, let's look at John 3:16:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

I believe that verse states that God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.
PinSeeker interpreted John 3:16 as follows, when he wrote

. . . that's implicitly what is said in John 3:16, that because God so loved the world, if we believe in Him (which means far more than just cognitively acknowledging Who Christ is), then we do avoid God's wrath, judgment, and the place where we would have experienced these things for eternity, which would be a torment to, an all-consuming anguish for, and a permanent removal from life -- death -- unto us

In your interpretation, how could a God who condemns people to an eternity of conscious torment, also love those people?

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #283

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:05 pm
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
I believe that verse states that God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Good. Well, me, too. Sure. Yes, Scripture is Scripture. God's Word is His word.
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:05 pm You believe John 3:16 states that God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not suffer everlasting conscious torment in hell, but have everlasting blissful life in Heaven.
LOL! No... No, I don't, myth-one. Sigh.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #284

Post by myth-one.com »

PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:19 am
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:05 pm
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
I believe that verse states that God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Good. Well, me, too. Sure. Yes, Scripture is Scripture. God's Word is His word.
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:05 pm You believe John 3:16 states that God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not suffer everlasting conscious torment in hell, but have everlasting blissful life in Heaven.
LOL! No... No, I don't, myth-one. Sigh.

Grace and peace to you.


But that is what you said you believed back on Thursday July 29, 2021 at 11:47 am!

Here is what you wrote at that time:

PinSeeker wrote:
Yeah, so, your "PinSeeker 3:16" is kind of ridiculous, but yes, that's implicitly what is said in John 3:16, that because God so loved the world, if we believe in Him (which means far more than just cognitively acknowledging Who Christ is), then we do avoid God's wrath, judgment, and the place where we would have experienced these things for eternity, which would be a torment to, an all-consuming anguish for, and a permanent removal from life -- death -- unto us.



Here is a link to your post where you made the above statement at that time: PinSeeker's interpretation of John 3:16

Do you now believe that the nonbelievers perish as the scriptures state, or do you still believe that they live forever like the believers, except they are tormented day and night forever and ever in hell?


Which is it?



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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #285

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:50 am But that is what you said you believed back on Thursday July 29, 2021 at 11:47 am!
Nope.
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:50 am Here is what you wrote at that time: "Yeah, so, your "PinSeeker 3:16" is kind of ridiculous, but yes, that's implicitly what is said in John 3:16..."
You're taking this completely out of the context of our discussion, myth-one. In that conversation, we were talking about death with regard to eternity, which is surely not a part of the gospel (good news) but precisely the opposite. So you're mixing two entirely different things. All I was saying was that, generally speaking, if one thing is said, then it's opposite, or the antithesis of it, is also true. That does not mean it is part of the same message (in the case of John 3:16, the good news, the gospel). To say this is ridiculous.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #286

Post by myth-one.com »

PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:04 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:50 am But that is what you said you believed back on Thursday July 29, 2021 at 11:47 am!
Nope.
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:50 am Here is what you wrote at that time: "Yeah, so, your "PinSeeker 3:16" is kind of ridiculous, but yes, that's implicitly what is said in John 3:16..."
You're taking this completely out of the context of our discussion, myth-one. In that conversation, we were talking about death with regard to eternity, which is surely not a part of the gospel (good news) but precisely the opposite. So you're mixing two entirely different things. All I was saying was that, generally speaking, if one thing is said, then it's opposite, or the antithesis of it, is also true. That does not mean it is part of the same message (in the case of John 3:16, the good news, the gospel). To say this is ridiculous.

Grace and peace to you.


No, no! You implicitly stated that is what you meant -- there is no other context.

Here, let me quote you word for word again:


I wrote:

You believe John 3:16 states that God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not suffer everlasting conscious torment in hell, but have everlasting blissful life in Heaven.



PinSeeker wrote:

Yeah, so, your "PinSeeker 3:16" is kind of ridiculous, but yes, that's implicitly what is said in John 3:16, that because God so loved the world, if we believe in Him (which means far more than just cognitively acknowledging Who Christ is), then we do avoid God's wrath, judgment, and the place where we would have experienced these things for eternity, which would be a torment to, an all-consuming anguish for, and a permanent removal from life -- death -- unto us.


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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #287

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:16 pm No, no! You implicitly stated that is what you meant -- there is no other context.
Oh, I see, I "implicitly stated"... which of course I didn't... so you put words in my mouth and THEN took it out of context. Yeah, well, a double whammy.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #288

Post by myth-one.com »

PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:03 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:16 pm No, no! You implicitly stated that is what you meant -- there is no other context.
Oh, I see, I "implicitly stated"... which of course I didn't... so you put words in my mouth and THEN took it out of context. Yeah, well, a double whammy.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.
I wrote:

You believe John 3:16 states that God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not suffer everlasting conscious torment in hell, but have everlasting blissful life in Heaven.

PinSeeker, or someone posing as Pinseeker wrote:

Yeah, so, your "PinSeeker 3:16" is kind of ridiculous, but yes, that's implicitly what is said in John 3:16, that because God so loved the world, if we believe in Him (which means far more than just cognitively acknowledging Who Christ is), then we do avoid God's wrath, judgment, and the place where we would have experienced these things for eternity, which would be a torment to, an all-consuming anguish for, and a permanent removal from life -- death -- unto us.

The above quotes indicate that you stated that John 3:16 implicitly states "that because God so loved the world, if we believe in Him (which means far more than just cognitively acknowledging Who Christ is), then we do avoid God's wrath, judgment, and the place where we would have experienced these things for eternity, which would be a torment to, an all-consuming anguish for, and a permanent removal from life -- death -- unto us."


You stated the above, now claim that you did not?

However, it is an answer to prayer if you now reject the everlasting torment of nonbelievers myth! :D

God is great!

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #289

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:35 pm The above quotes indicate that you stated that John 3:16 implicitly states "that because God so loved the world, if we believe in Him (which means far more than just cognitively acknowledging Who Christ is), then we do avoid God's wrath, judgment, and the place where we would have experienced these things for eternity, which would be a torment to, an all-consuming anguish for, and a permanent removal from life -- death -- unto us."
Read your own statement here a bit more closely, myth-one, particularly the first part of the first sentence. Here, I'll quote it for you. You said, "stated that John 3:16 implicitly states..." See? John 3:16 makes an implicit statement, not me.

Again:

* All I said was, John 3:16 states what will happen for/to those who believe in the Lord, that they will not perish but have everlasting life.

* So the implicit statement in John 3:16 ~ not in anything PinSeeker said ~ is that... something else :)... happens for those who don't believe in the Lord.

And perhaps I can make it more clear for you... that implicit statement is that they will perish, and not inherit or have everlasting life. And that implicit statement you agree with, I know. But that brings us back around ~ yet again ~ to... what perishing and not inheriting everlasting life really means, which we know we disagree on and have discussed at length, so there is no need to do so again. We should be able to leave it at that.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.[/quote]

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #290

Post by myth-one.com »

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #290]

Life is much better if God is Love.

I can leave it at that.

Someday you're going to have to explain your tangled interpretation to a loving, not sadistic, God.

You need to be working on that conversation -- not ours.

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