#3 Jesus on Hell

[Wootah]

Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

How can there be a place with weeping and gnashing teeth if all the people are dead or annihilated?

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?

#1 Jesus on hell: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38453
#2 Jesus on hell: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38457

[2ndpillar2]

Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

How can there be a place with weeping and gnashing teeth if all the people are dead or annihilated?

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?

#1 Jesus on hell: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38453
#2 Jesus on hell: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38457

Matthew 13:41-42 is about the "great tribulation", and the following millennium, whereas the murderers, idolaters, are locked outside the gate (Revelation 22:15). At that time, they will have plenty of time to weep and gnash their teeth. I would image that time is quickly approaching.

[PinSeeker]

Yes, God made clothes for them.

So like a flannel shirt, khaki chinos, and penny loafers for Adam, and a denim jumper, a white blouse, and sandals for Eve?

If they died that day, why were they alive the day after?

Yeah, that's the question I've been asking you for quite some time now. That and, if God said they would die that very day, and, as you say and I agree, God does not lie (and is never mistaken about anything), then, you know, why ~ and how ~ were they physically alive the day after. Yeah, both really the same kind of question.

The total mortal man.

Ah, "the total mortal man." Yes, physically speaking, man cannot only partially die...

That's correct. There is no half dead or half alive.

Agree. But you said "total mortal man," which just sort of struck me as a bit humorous.

God sent them from the garden to prevent them from living for ever.

Yes, from the tree of life, and subjecting them to physical (the first) death. Sure. But that's not the whole story; it's only the result of the spiritual death they suffered on that very day. Adam and Eve actually died, just as God said they would ~ they became dead in their sin/trespasses. And from that time forward, all of mankind is born into this state, else there would be no need to be born again of the Holy Spirit. Okay, I'll explain (again):

We are born in the bondage and corruption of sin, which was the state Adam and Eve fell into as a result of eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. As a result, we are the living dead, bequeathed this state by Adam and Eve as a result of the Fall in Genesis 3. Paul describes us Christians as those who “once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind” (Eph. 2:3a). Because of this corruption, we were ~ until we were born again of the Holy Spirit ~ spiritually dead, unable to understand savingly the Gospel (1 Cor. 2:14; John 3:3); filled with hate toward God (Rom. 8:6–7); and unwilling and unable to respond to God in faith and repentance (Rom. 8:8; John 5:40). This is the terrible reality of spiritual death, which is separation from God. Spiritual death is the root cause of the second consequence of the Fall, physical (the first) death.

Why do you argue against God?

Never would I do such a thing.

Grace and peace to you.

[PinSeeker]

...following (the) millennium, whereas the murderers, idolaters, are locked outside the gate (Revelation 22:15). At that time, they will have plenty of time to weep and gnash their teeth.

Right, this is the second death. Eternal separation from God and His grace (and God the Son, Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit) under the Father's final and eternal judgment. Right.

I would image that time is quickly approaching.

Well, yes, but it may not be quickly from our perspective. But then again, it may be...

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

...following (the) millennium, whereas the murderers, idolaters, are locked outside the gate (Revelation 22:15). At that time, they will have plenty of time to weep and gnash their teeth.

Right, this is the second death. Eternal separation from God and His grace (and God the Son, Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit) under the Father's final and eternal judgment. Right.

I would image that time is quickly approaching.

Well, yes, but it may not be quickly from our perspective. But then again, it may be...

Grace and peace to you.

Eternal separation from God is not a death.

And how is that accomplished if God is omnipresent, or everywhere?

The second death is actually a death.

Nonbelievers are resurrected as humans at the second resurrection and face judgment.

Following their judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and quickly suffer their second and everlasting death.

They will never know anything ever again.

[2ndpillar2]

...following (the) millennium, whereas the murderers, idolaters, are locked outside the gate (Revelation 22:15). At that time, they will have plenty of time to weep and gnash their teeth.

Right, this is the second death. Eternal separation from God and His grace (and God the Son, Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit) under the Father's final and eternal judgment. Right.

I would image that time is quickly approaching.

Well, yes, but it may not be quickly from our perspective. But then again, it may be...

Grace and peace to you.

Eternal separation from God is not a death.

And how is that accomplished if God is omnipresent, or everywhere?

The second death is actually a death.

Nonbelievers are resurrected as humans at the second resurrection and face judgment.

Following their judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and quickly suffer their second and everlasting death.

They will never know anything ever again.

Separation from God is a spiritual death. That is the fate of the "many" (Matthew 7:13) in the here and now. All the dead, from their graves, are resurrected at judgement day to be judged with regards to their deeds (Revelation 20:12-13). And the "false prophet", your leader Paul, and the "beast", will not die when thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10).

[2timothy316]

And the "false prophet", your leader Paul, and the "beast", will not die when thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10).

Where in the Bible is Paul called 'the false prophet'?

[PinSeeker]

Eternal separation from God is not a death.

Yes it most certainly is, because by 'separation,' we should understand that to mean 'at enmity with,' which does not mean that He is not present with those that experience this death, but that they do not have His saving grace (in this life; this is the state that Adam and Eve entered into initially, being banished from Eden, and the state we are all born into), and are only under His judgment (unbelievers, in the age to come, eternity).

And how is that accomplished if God is omnipresent, or everywhere?

Yeah, good question; see above.

The second death is actually a death.

Right, but not in the sense of cessation of existence. Again, see above.

Nonbelievers are resurrected as humans at the second resurrection and face judgment.

Right, they are resurrected to judgment. But so are believers, although to eternal life... they will not have to face judgment, because they will have an Advocate Who already faced it and paid their "wages of sin" on their behalf.

Following their judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and quickly suffer their second and everlasting death.

Well, the state that they enter into, death, is certainly everlasting, for sure.

They will never know anything ever again.

Oh... yes they will. Like Satan, they will be immersed in God's final judgment and thus in torment (not tormented by anyone else, much less God) day and night forever.

Grace and peace to you.

[PinSeeker]

Separation from God is a spiritual death. That is the fate of the "many" (Matthew 7:13) in the here and now. All the dead, from their graves, are resurrected at judgement day to be judged with regards to their deeds (Revelation 20:12-13).

Right! Except "all the dead" encompasses believers and unbelievers alike. All the dead are resurrected, some to eternal life and the others to judgment (John 5:28-29).

And the "false prophet", your leader Paul, and the "beast", will not die when thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10).

Whoops. Two things here:

1. Paul is neither a false prophet (he was not a prophet at all), nor my (or anyone else's) leader. He was used by God in great ways in speading His Gospel and starting the building of His church, which is a people, but he was not anyone's leader. Paul would be the first to say that, as he called himself the chief of sinners.

2. All who are thrown into the "lake of fire" will experience the second death; the "lake of fire" is the second death. But we should not get cessation of existence from that, as that is a terrible misunderstanding.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

Separation from God is a spiritual death.

Spirits are immortal beings and cannot die. Death of a spiritual body is thus impossible.

God is everywhere or omnipresent. So no one can escape the presence of God.

One can lose their "spirit" or enthusiasm if that is what you mean.

All the dead, from their graves, are resurrected at judgement day to be judged with regards to their deeds (Revelation 20:12-13).

No, there is an order to the resurrections:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

Jesus was resurrected first.

The next resurrection will be for all deceased believers (those that are Christ's) and will occur at the Second Coming(at his coming). And there is absolutely no reason to judge the believers. These individuals will help perform the judging of those resurrected at the second resurrection.

Deceased nonbelievers will be resurrected a thousand years later (after the Millennium):

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished . . . (Revelation 20:5)

Revelation 20:12-13 details this second resurrection.

They will then face judgment.

[2ndpillar2]

Separation from God is a spiritual death.

Spirits are immortal beings and cannot die. Death of a spiritual body is thus impossible.

God is everywhere or omnipresent. So no one can escape the presence of God.

One can lose their "spirit" or enthusiasm if that is what you mean.

All the dead, from their graves, are resurrected at judgement day to be judged with regards to their deeds (Revelation 20:12-13).

No, there is an order to the resurrections:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

Jesus was resurrected first.

The next resurrection will be for all deceased believers (those that are Christ's) and will occur at the Second Coming(at his coming). And there is absolutely no reason to judge the believers. These individuals will help perform the judging of those resurrected at the second resurrection.

Deceased nonbelievers will be resurrected a thousand years later (after the Millennium):

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished . . . (Revelation 20:5)

Revelation 20:12-13 details this second resurrection.

They will then face judgment.

Spiritual death is when one is cut off from God. The "walking dead", or those that walk, yet are spiritually dead. As for your quote from the "false prophet" Paul, well, you can take it or leave it. "Believers" in Paul's false gospel of grace, in which lawlessness prevails, Yeshua said in Matthew 7:23, "I never knew you; 'Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness' ". As for who will be "resurrected" at the judgment day, that would be (Revelation 20:13) [The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.] That would be all who died, and who had the mark of the beast (Revelation 20:4), and remained in their graves. The mark of the beast being the worship of the beast and his two horns like a lamb, the Christlike apostles Peter and Paul, upon which the Roman church, the church of Caesar is built. As for those who died during the millennium, which were many, for only the cursed would die before the age of 100, but they would die, nonetheless, they would be resurrected to be judged as well. (Isaiah 65:20) As for you believing that you surely shall not die, as dictated by the serpent and Paul, I am afraid that is nonsense, for everyone person will die for their own iniquity (Jeremiah 31:30). Building your "house"/church on the babel/babble of Paul, is like building a house on a foundation of sand. (Matthew 7:26) That house will "fall".