#3 Jesus on Hell

[Wootah]

Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

How can there be a place with weeping and gnashing teeth if all the people are dead or annihilated?

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?

#1 Jesus on hell: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38453
#2 Jesus on hell: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38457

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #30]

Which ones contradict? you could describe Paris or New York in a 1,000 ways. Please show contradictions or delete your post.

I'll not delete my post. Earlier you claimed that the loss of no longer being able to play softball, or some such sport, is hell. You also claimed the derailment of a thread, even though no such thing had taken place, was hellish. You also described it as separation from God. My reason for not deleting my post is obvious all apologies to Paris and New York which were of course thrown out as nothing more than a Red Herring or rather a double header of Red Herrings.


Tcg

[myth-one.com]

How long does the weeping and gnashing last?

For eternity.

Perhaps there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth until all the people are dead and annihilated.

Well, if they were annihilated, then that would be true, but they are not.

Grace and peace to you.

Are you claiming that people do not perish when cast into a lake of fire and brimstone?

[Wootah]

[Replying to Tcg in post #32]

OK let me do your work for you.

Wootah said Hell is _________ this contradicts with Wootah when he said Hell is _____________ and both can't be true because ___________.

That's how I would expect a debater on a debate forum to highlight a contradiction. Who knows, there probably is and it would improve my argument in the long term so I can eliminate the contradiction.

[PinSeeker]

So you're claiming that the wages of sin is everlasting weeping and gnashing of teeth torment in the lake of fire.

Symbolically speaking, yes. One's existence in hell is a most certainly a death -- death of the worst kind, and permanent. Now, what we're talking about is on a much higher plane, but think of it in this way (although much higher):

If someone says to another, "You are dead to me," then they ignore that other person completely, and what that other person does or says from then on matters absolutely not one iota to the one who, in a sense, pronounced death upon that other person.

So Jesus, as you well know, I'm sure, said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life," right? Right. Well, so Jesus, in the Judgment, as He illustrates very clearly in His parable in Matthew 25, sends unbelievers away, and in so doing, pronounces death upon them -- not non-existience or annihilation, but death nonetheless -- and they go away, out of the presence of Him Who pronounced Himself life -- into "outer darkness" -- and, of course, if one is not in the presence of life, does not have life, he/she is dead, utterly destroyed... completely ruined and without hope.

That would require the following correction to John 3:16. Let's call it Pinseeker 3:16 -- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not be tormented in the lake of fire eternally, but have everlasting life. (PinSeeker 3:16)

Yeah, so, your "PinSeeker 3:16" is kind of ridiculous, but yes, that's implicitly what is said in John 3:16, that because God so loved the world, if we believe in Him (which means far more than just cognitively acknowledging Who Christ is), then we do avoid God's wrath, judgment, and the place where we would have experienced these things for eternity, which would be a torment to, an all-consuming anguish for, and a permanent removal from life -- death -- unto us.

Where's the grace in that?

To be pardoned from the wrath, judgment, and death that we fully deserve? You know, because of the sacrifice made by God Himself? Solely because of God's mercy and compassion? That's not grace to you?

Under your theology, believers are no different from nonbelievers in regards to everlasting life -- as you have everyone living eternally.

Well, existing eternally, but mere existence is not necessarily life. Unbelievers will certainly not live eternally; they will exist, consciously, in a state of death, permanently removed from and out of the presence of the One Who Himself is life, and in the permanent judgment of God... in a place totally removed from His grace. This is the second (final) death. See above.

Doesn't the "but have everlasting life" phrase describing believers imply that nonbelievers will not have everlasting life?

Yes, certainly, but annihilation/extinction/non-existence is not in view. All are totally unbiblical. See above.

Had enough yet? No, of course not...

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

So you're claiming that the wages of sin is everlasting weeping and gnashing of teeth torment in the lake of fire.

Symbolically speaking, yes.

Please quit speaking symbolically, and get into the real world.

One's existence in hell is a most certainly a death -- death of the worst kind, and permanent.

If someone says to another, "You are dead to me," then they ignore that other person completely, and what that other person does or says from then on matters absolutely not one iota to the one who, in a sense, pronounced death upon that other person.

Living beings who have had death pronounced upon them are still alive!

Do you see how that works?

[myth-one.com]

So you're claiming that the wages of sin is everlasting weeping and gnashing of teeth torment in the lake of fire.

Symbolically speaking, yes.

Please quit speaking symbolically, and get into the real world.

One's existence in hell is a most certainly a death -- death of the worst kind, and permanent.

Existence and death are mutually exclusive. If you exist, you are alive. If you are dead, you no longer exist.

If someone says to another, "You are dead to me," then they ignore that other person completely, and what that other person does or says from then on matters absolutely not one iota to the one who, in a sense, pronounced death upon that other person.

Living beings who have had death pronounced upon them are still alive!

Do you see how that works?

[myth-one.com]

So you're claiming that the wages of sin is everlasting weeping and gnashing of teeth torment in the lake of fire.

Symbolically speaking, yes.

Please quit speaking symbolically, and get into the real world.

One's existence in hell is most certainly a death -- death of the worst kind, and permanent.

Existence and death are mutually exclusive. If you exist, you are alive. If you are dead, you no longer exist.

If someone says to another, "You are dead to me," then they ignore that other person completely, and what that other person does or says from then on matters absolutely not one iota to the one who, in a sense, pronounced death upon that other person.

Living beings who have had death pronounced upon them are still alive!

Do you see how that works?

[PinSeeker]

Please quit speaking symbolically, and get into the real world.

LOL!!! By definition, symbols are indicative (very) real things. Such is the case with the symbol-laden book of Revelation. My suggestion is that you come to realize that the book of Revelation is apocalyptic literature and start reading it as such.

Living beings who have had death pronounced upon them are still alive! Do you see how that works?

Well, I see how it "works" your "world," yes.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

OOPS! Not sure how I got my post# #35 posted three times, or what to do about it. Please accept my heavy fingered apology!

So you're claiming that the wages of sin is everlasting weeping and gnashing of teeth torment in the lake of fire.

Symbolically speaking, yes.

By classifying the everlasting weeping and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire as "symbolic" -- does that make the eternal torment any less painful?

Thanks in advance.

(Gonna depress the "submit" key once -- I hope.)

[PinSeeker]

By classifying the everlasting weeping and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire as "symbolic" -- does that make the eternal torment any less painful? Thanks in advance.

Well that depends on what you mean by "painful."

Grace and peace to you.