#3 Jesus on Hell

[Wootah]

Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

How can there be a place with weeping and gnashing teeth if all the people are dead or annihilated?

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?

#1 Jesus on hell: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38453
#2 Jesus on hell: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38457

[2ndpillar2]

As for women in the assembly of God, one of the foremost judges and leaders of Israel was was a women (Deborah). She apparently had a voice in the congregation by way of her being anointed, such as she was a judge of Israel.

Sure. All Christians, women included, "have a voice" in the congregation. But leading a congregation in the worship of God is another story.

The assignments in the Church of Paul, seem to have been relegated by Paul.

There is no "Church of Paul." There certainly is a Church of Christ ~ Christ's Church ~ but no "Church of Paul." He would be the first to tell anyone that. As for what Paul taught anywhere in Scripture, all Scripture is God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16).

As for Paul being assigned as an "apostle", who actually said that he was an an "apostle"?

Well, that would be Christ Jesus Himself, in Acts 9. Read about Saul's conversion (his name became Paul); it's a great story. In verse 15, we read that the Lord told Ananias, "...(Paul) is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel." And then in verse 27, it is obvious that the other apostles recognized this, as Barnabas brought Paul to them and told them of how Paul had seen and been spoken to by the Lord on the road to Demascus, and how Paul had subsequently preached boldly in the name of Jesus. After that meeting, Paul went with the apostles and preached boldly in the name of the Lord.

In Zechariah 11, Paul is designated as a shepherd/staff, who was to lead the "flock" that was to be "doomed to slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7). That would be the Gentile church. That is a different "flock" than was led by Yeshua and the Spirit of God. As for Paul and his teaching of lawlessness, his false gospel being the gospel of grace/cross, in which the Law is supposedly nailed to the pagan cross. Paul would be one of the two horns of the man of lawlessness/destruction (Daniel 7:25), the Roman emperor Constantine, who would "intend to make alterations in the times and in law", such as the implementing the false doctrine of the Trinity, and changing the day of rest to Sunday by his decree of 321 AD. Constantine was the beast with two horns like a lamb (Christlike leaders), who was to deceive those who dwell on the earth (Revelation 13). The two horns being Peter and Paul, Peter being the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17).

Yeah, no, to all of this. Christ Himself, when He began His public ministry, quoted Isaiah 61, saying the Spirit of the Lord GOD was upon Him, that He had been anointed by the LORD to bring good news to the poor, bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and the opening of the prison to those who are bound... to comfort all those who mourn, the the Lord God would cause righteousness and praise to sprout up before all the nations." It's all about God's grace, and Paul made that very clear.

So Paul's gospel was Christ's Gospel and did not teach lawlessness in any sense. Paul himself referred to Daniel 7 and spoke of "the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God" (2 Thessalonians 2) being revealed in the last times. He was certainly not, obviously, talking about himself.

And Christ Himself taught the reality of the triune Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, most clearly in John 14 (which of course John wrote, and not Paul); But, as John writes in chapter 14 of his gospel, Jesus says:

• "Believe in God; believe also in me... I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him... Whoever has seen Me has seen the Father... I am in the Father and the Father is in Me... And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, Whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. You know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you... the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

Paul himself referred to Daniel 7 and spoke of "the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God" (2 Thessalonians 2) being revealed in the last times. He was certainly not, obviously, talking about himself. Paul, in his humility, called himself the least of the apostles and even unworthy to be called an apostle (1 Corinthians 15) ~ even the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1) ~ merely (although no mere thing, certainly) continued Christ's work, as did Peter, who was eventually crucified for his proclamation of the Christ crucified and His Gospel, even requesting to be crucified upside down because he felt unworthy to die in the same manner as Jesus Christ.

Finally, Peter was not the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11. One of Zechariah's key themes in his prophecy is judgment on the wicked shepherds of God's people who abused their power ~ which has not just one or two manifestations but many, over a long period of time ~ and their eventual replacement by a Good Shepherd, which Christ fulfilled and even proclaimed Himself to be in John 10. Gentiles are included in God's Israel, as we see in Romans (and this is coming from Paul, who was certainly a Jew outwardly):

• "For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God." (2:28-29)

• "...a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved..." (11:25-26)

And speaking of what Jesus said in John 10, this is exactly what Jesus was saying concerning "other sheep that are not of this fold" that He "must bring in also." He was speaking of the Gentiles, and went on to say, in the same breath, that "there will be one flock, one Shepherd." This Shepherd, of course, is Himself, as He says in that very passage ("I am the Good Shepherd" ~ verse 11, referring clearly to Psalm 23).

Grace and peace to you.

1 Corinthians 14:34 New King James Version
Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.

As for 2 Timothy 3:16, this was written by Paul, and was referring to the "sacred writings" "from childhood". That would preclude 2 Timothy 3:16, and anything else Paul might have written.

As for Paul pointing at someone else as being the "man of lawlessness", well that is a common tactic. Look at the politicians of today. Yeshua's "good news" was the kingdom of God/heaven, which is described distinctly in Matthew 13, whereas you will have the righteous and the lawless, those who embrace the world, and do not keep the law, those who "commit lawlessness", will be thrown into the furnace of fire.

As for the Gentiles, they were representative of the adulteress of Hosea 3, who was bought for the equivalent price of 30 shekels of silver, and who would be kept for "many days", before the sons of Israel would return. The return happens after 2 days (2 thousand years) per Hosea 6:2. At the end of the age, the nations/Gentiles in which Israel was sold, will all be destroyed completely (Jeremiah 30:11), whereas Jacob and Israel will be chastened and "saved".

As for there being one flock, that is defined in Ezekiel 37, whereas Judah and Israel will be combined into one, and live in the land given to Jacob, and David would be their king forever. That hasn't happened, and Israel remains scattered among the nations/Gentiles (Ezekiel 36). The shepherd over the flock is defined in Ezekiel 34:23, and is David, and does not happen until all the flock is judged (EZ 34:20). The Great Tribulation will be the upcoming judgment of Gentile and Jew. Jacob will escape (saved from it), but apparently, many of the Gentiles will not. (Jeremiah 30:7-11).

[PinSeeker]

1 Corinthians 14:34 New King James Version -- Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.

Yes, women are not supposed to preach in worship. As I said. And submissiveness is not at all the same thing as complete subjugation.

As for 2 Timothy 3:16, this was written by Paul, and was referring to the "sacred writings" "from childhood". That would preclude 2 Timothy 3:16, and anything else Paul might have written.

The Old Testament foreshadows the New.

As for Paul pointing at someone else as being the "man of lawlessness", well that is a common tactic.

LOL! What you say here is itself a common tactic.

Yeshua's "good news" was the kingdom of God/heaven, which is described distinctly in Matthew 13, whereas you will have the righteous and the lawless, those who embrace the world, and do not keep the law, those who "commit lawlessness", will be thrown into the furnace of fire.

As for the Gentiles, they were representative of the adulteress of Hosea 3, who was bought for the equivalent price of 30 shekels of silver, and who would be kept for "many days", before the sons of Israel would return. The return happens after 2 days (2 thousand years) per Hosea 6:2. At the end of the age, the nations/Gentiles in which Israel was sold, will all be destroyed completely (Jeremiah 30:11), whereas Jacob and Israel will be chastened and "saved".

As for there being one flock, that is defined in Ezekiel 37, whereas Judah and Israel will be combined into one, and live in the land given to Jacob, and David would be their king forever. That hasn't happened, and Israel remains scattered among the nations/Gentiles (Ezekiel 36). The shepherd over the flock is defined in Ezekiel 34:23, and is David, and does not happen until all the flock is judged (EZ 34:20). The Great Tribulation will be the upcoming judgment of Gentile and Jew. Jacob will escape (saved from it), but apparently, many of the Gentiles will not. (Jeremiah 30:7-11).

Some things to agree with here, but a lot of stuff to clear up. But, in lieu of that, I'll just say that Jesus ~ Yeshua, if you prefer ~ is the Greater David.

Grace and peace to you, 2P2.