Identifying Free Will

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Online
User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14139
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 911 times
Been thanked: 1641 times
Contact:

Identifying Free Will

Post #1

Post by William »

Fundamental to the Christian Belief Systems shared by a majority of those calling themselves "Christians"

Q: Is "Free Will" the same thing as "The Ego".

Re: Wikipedia
Free Will:
Free will is the capacity for agents to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.[1][2]

Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, guilt, sin, and other judgements which apply only to actions that are freely chosen. It is also connected with the concepts of advice, persuasion, deliberation, and prohibition. Traditionally, only actions that are freely willed are seen as deserving credit or blame. Whether free will exists, what it is and the implications of whether it exists or not are some of the longest running debates of philosophy and religion. Some conceive of free will as the right to act outside of external influences or wishes.
Re: Wikipedia
The Ego:
The ego (Latin for "I",[19] German: Ich)[20] acts according to the reality principle; i.e., it seeks to please the id's drive in realistic ways that, in the long term, bring benefit, rather than grief.[21] At the same time, Freud concedes that as the ego "attempts to mediate between id and reality, it is often obliged to cloak the [unconscious] commands of the id with its own preconscious rationalizations, to conceal the id's conflicts with reality, to profess...to be taking notice of reality even when the id has remained rigid and unyielding."[22] The reality principle that operates the ego is a regulating mechanism that enables the individual to delay gratifying immediate needs and function effectively in the real world. An example would be to resist the urge to grab other people's belongings, but instead to purchase those items.

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 11446
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 326 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: Identifying Free Will

Post #71

Post by 1213 »

William wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:45 pm ...what I have is access to Will ...
Ok, thanks for the clarification. then, if it is not your will, can you tell whose will it is?

Online
User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14139
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 911 times
Been thanked: 1641 times
Contact:

Re: Identifying Free Will

Post #72

Post by William »

1213 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:48 pm
William wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:45 pm Yes....but I suspect that this is what [who] I am in the sense that I do not HAVE will, but that I AM Will.

Essential I think of Will as something that starts out as "without personality" and when Will is placed into a container such as the Human form and placed on a planet of extremes, which is placed in a universe of infinite mystery, "personality" quickly [and willfully] evolves. [iow the personality is created]
Thus, I [the personality which has access to Will] ask "Is "Free Will" the same thing as "The Ego"" and then question why I asked the question.
So far I am thinking that I the personality have access to the Will [which is the real player in this game] and often enough have misused the Will for my own selfish benefit...and other times, not.
So - maybe in that - I confuse myself thinking I have free Will, rather than in reality, what I have is access to Will in which I use for the duration of my short existence as said personality, in this rather limiting environment [re what personality wants.]
Ok, thanks for the clarification. then, if it is not your will, can you tell whose will it is?
The Creators.

Kylie
Apprentice
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:19 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Identifying Free Will

Post #73

Post by Kylie »

William wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:40 am
Kylie wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:40 pm
William wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:13 pm [Replying to Kylie in post #66]
This sounds very circular, saying we aren't free, thus we don't have free will, and since we don't have free will, we aren't free.
More to the point, it is saying that we aren't free, but we have will, and having will does not somehow make us [or the will] free.
So how does it work that we can have a will of our own, but it isn't free?
: Is "Free Will" the same thing as "The Ego".
So you can't actually answer the question.

Online
User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14139
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 911 times
Been thanked: 1641 times
Contact:

Re: Identifying Free Will

Post #74

Post by William »

Kylie wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:03 pm
William wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:40 am
Kylie wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:40 pm
William wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:13 pm [Replying to Kylie in post #66]
This sounds very circular, saying we aren't free, thus we don't have free will, and since we don't have free will, we aren't free.
More to the point, it is saying that we aren't free, but we have will, and having will does not somehow make us [or the will] free.
So how does it work that we can have a will of our own, but it isn't free?
: Is "Free Will" the same thing as "The Ego".
So you can't actually answer the question.
I did not ask the question rhetorically.

Kylie
Apprentice
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:19 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Identifying Free Will

Post #75

Post by Kylie »

William wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:43 pm
Kylie wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:03 pm
William wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:40 am
Kylie wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:40 pm
William wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:13 pm [Replying to Kylie in post #66]
This sounds very circular, saying we aren't free, thus we don't have free will, and since we don't have free will, we aren't free.
More to the point, it is saying that we aren't free, but we have will, and having will does not somehow make us [or the will] free.
So how does it work that we can have a will of our own, but it isn't free?
: Is "Free Will" the same thing as "The Ego".
So you can't actually answer the question.
I did not ask the question rhetorically.
You are still incapable answering the question. If we have will, how do you determine that it is not free?

Online
User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14139
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 911 times
Been thanked: 1641 times
Contact:

Re: Identifying Free Will

Post #76

Post by William »

Kylie wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:47 pm
William wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:43 pm
Kylie wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:03 pm
William wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:40 am
Kylie wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:40 pm
William wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:13 pm [Replying to Kylie in post #66]
This sounds very circular, saying we aren't free, thus we don't have free will, and since we don't have free will, we aren't free.
More to the point, it is saying that we aren't free, but we have will, and having will does not somehow make us [or the will] free.
So how does it work that we can have a will of our own, but it isn't free?
: Is "Free Will" the same thing as "The Ego".
So you can't actually answer the question.
I did not ask the question rhetorically.
You are still incapable answering the question.
Really? How about you?
If we have will, how do you determine that it is not free?

If we have will, how do we determine that it is free?

Kylie
Apprentice
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:19 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Identifying Free Will

Post #77

Post by Kylie »

William wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:02 am
Kylie wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:47 pm
William wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:43 pm
Kylie wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:03 pm
William wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:40 am
Kylie wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:40 pm
William wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:13 pm [Replying to Kylie in post #66]
This sounds very circular, saying we aren't free, thus we don't have free will, and since we don't have free will, we aren't free.
More to the point, it is saying that we aren't free, but we have will, and having will does not somehow make us [or the will] free.
So how does it work that we can have a will of our own, but it isn't free?
: Is "Free Will" the same thing as "The Ego".
So you can't actually answer the question.
I did not ask the question rhetorically.
You are still incapable answering the question.
Really? How about you?
If we have will, how do you determine that it is not free?

If we have will, how do we determine that it is free?
You seem utterly incapable of answering the most basic questions about this topic. You are like an annoying child that keeps asking "Why?"

Online
User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14139
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 911 times
Been thanked: 1641 times
Contact:

Re: Identifying Free Will

Post #78

Post by William »

[Replying to Kylie in post #78]
You seem utterly incapable of answering the most basic questions about this topic. You are like an annoying child that keeps asking "Why?"
See: "Projection"

See also: ad hominem

If you read the thread, you will come across information in posts where I have indeed offered possible answers to the question.

Kylie
Apprentice
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:19 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Identifying Free Will

Post #79

Post by Kylie »

William wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:06 pm [Replying to Kylie in post #78]
You seem utterly incapable of answering the most basic questions about this topic. You are like an annoying child that keeps asking "Why?"
See: "Projection"

See also: ad hominem

If you read the thread, you will come across information in posts where I have indeed offered possible answers to the question.
Perhaps, but I don't have the time to go searching through 7 pages looking for them. And you still couldn't do any more than answer my question with another question that attempted to shift the burden of proof off yourself. That in itself reeks of intellectual laziness.

Online
User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14139
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 911 times
Been thanked: 1641 times
Contact:

Re: Identifying Free Will

Post #80

Post by William »

[Replying to Kylie in post #80]

There is no burden of proof as I made no actual claim.

Post Reply