Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

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Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #1

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

.

First off, let me preface this by saying the following..

1. As mentioned on another thread, I have many years invested in dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's), from family, to friends, to strangers. I am very familiar with them and their theology.

2. I am beginning a series of threads attacking their "Christian" theology and doctrine. This one, as titled, deals with Jehovah's Witnesses and their false prophecies.

3. I have beef with, not only JW's, but ANYONE of whom I believe to be spreading false Christian doctrine. This includes, but not limited to...

A.) Mormons
B.) Catholics
C.) World Mission Society Church of God
D.) Hebrew Israelites

Jehovah's Witnesses are just one of many false Christian denominations. But, we are talking about Jehovah's Witnesses for now.

So, the question is ultimately; Why do I feel as if Jehovah's Witnesses are false teachers? There are many reasons, and one of those reasons is their many failed attempts at predicting prophecy.

Before I continue on post #2, keep in mind that future threads in this series will go straight to the gusto, with no preface.

Just FYI.
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #181

Post by PinSeeker »

Let me say from the outset here that the questions that I'm posing here... there is no agenda to them. Just trying to understand you a bit better:
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:03 am The "Israel of God" are the anointed brothers of Christ.
Okay, and would you say that this group, the "anointed brothers of Christ," is made up of God's Elect?
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:03 am Our Governing Body is just a small part of that group that began to be chosen from Pentecost 33 AD.
Well, I guess your answer to this question would depend or at least be closely related to your answer to the above question, but Scripture tells us that the Elect were chosen before the foundation of the world. Why do you (apparently, but possibly not, I guess; I don't want to put words in your mouth) disagree with this?
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:03 am This small modern part of the anointed ones has led the worldwide preaching work and collaborated with Jesus and Jehovah in helping others to know the truth so they can separate themselves from the lies of the religious part that belongs to the world, and not to God.
So this statement seems to assert that Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves equal with Jesus and (possibly, and even Jehovah Himself, whether one sees that from a trinitarian perspective or not) co-redeemers with Him. Do they?
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:03 am Not all Witnesses are part of the anointed ones...
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are there some Witnesses who are not really believers, as in the false sons that we read about in Scripture? Or saved, but not part of this "Governing body"?
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:03 am ...but we all have the same principles and await God's salvation from the judgment that awaits this wicked system of things ruled by Satan and his angels. These people is not part of that world, whether those hoping to reign with Christ in heaven or those others who hope that this government will turn the earth into a paradise where they will continue to live or resurrect if dead.
Hmmm... I don't even know what to make of this. I mean, I get -- terribly mistaken as most of us understand it to be -- the JW belief in a literal 144,000-person ruling-from-heaven-with-Christ body (like a parliament or something...), but we know that the new Jerusalem will come down out of heaven and the dwelling place of God will be with man, and God Himself will be with us as our God (Revelation 21:1-7). But do JWs believe that the resurrection of the dead is an ongoing thing?
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:03 am It is your job to find the differences between this people and the false religious world so that you can act quickly on your own behalf.
Well, I don't necessarily disagree, although I would say my primary job is to proclaim Christ and Him crucified, or, to put is absolutely Scripturally, to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that He (Christ Jesus) has commanded us. And of course this goes hand-in-hand with our chief end, which is to glorify Him and enjoy Him. Fortunately, I have a Helper, the Holy Spirit, Who reminds me of all the Christ Jesus has said and enables me to do this... bears His fruit through me.
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:03 am Our job is to try and help you realize it ... It all depends on your attitude (Matt. 25: 31-46).
Well, that's the Holy Spirit's job, and it depends really on His work in... well, the believer... which depends on the Father's will. I do agree, though -- well, this is not really what you're saying -- that He uses people as His instruments, for sure. This is our anointing, as John speaks of in 1 John 2:20. And regarding the Holy Spirit, there is 'do' and 'do not,' there is no 'try'...

Image

:)

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #182

Post by Eloi »

True faith comes from hearing. Hearing is listening to someone who comes to you, because he/she is the one who does that work in the first place. Then you analyze what you are told and acquire faith based on accurate knowledge about Jehovah God and his Son Jesus from him.

Jehovah's Witnesses around the world are those sent by God and His spirit. We are all around the world doing the job. Who are you? Whether you listen to us or not ... it's up to you.

Rom. 10:10 For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.
11 For the scripture says: “No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”
16 Nevertheless, they did not all obey the good news. For Isaiah says: “Jehovah, who has put faith in the thing heard from us?” 17 So faith follows the thing heard. In turn, what is heard is through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, “into all the earth their sound went out, and to the ends of the inhabited earth their message.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #183

Post by PinSeeker »

Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:14 pm True faith comes from hearing.
Sure, that's the vehicle God uses to give faith (or not, depending on His purpose).
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:14 pm Hearing is listening to someone who comes to you, because he/she is the one who does that work in the first place. Then you analyze what you are told and acquire faith based on accurate knowledge about Jehovah God and his Son Jesus from him.
Ah, so you're saying that ones faith is a work all his own? If so, that's directly opposed to what Paul tells us in Ephesians:
  • "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ -- by grace you have been saved -- and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:4-10)
  • "So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace" (Romans 11:5-6)
If I am reading you correctly, Jehovah's Witnesses are certainly not alone in that misunderstanding. But again, if I'm understanding you correctly.
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:14 pm Jehovah's Witnesses around the world are those sent by God and His spirit. We are all around the world doing the job.
Well, if you are proclaiming Christ and Him crucified, and glorifying God, then that's great! But the question was/is, do you believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones doing this?
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:14 pm Who are you?
Well, I am in Christ -- by the grace of God and by the work of His Holy Spirit -- and as such a witness of the triune Jehovah... :) but certainly not a "Jehovah's Witness." I've been very clear about that.
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:14 pm Whether you listen to us or not ... it's up to you.
Oh, I listen, for sure... :) You seem to be skirting my questions...

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #184

Post by Eloi »

Our official website has been translated into more than 1000 languages to be consulted by people from all over the world who speak them. There it can be acquired as much verified biblical knowledge as has never happened before in all of human history. Do you know someone else who has done this? Don't compare us ... and don't even consider that you as an individual can wear this suit ... It's too big on you.

2 Cor. 11:12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to eliminate the pretext of those who are wanting a basis for being found equal to us in the things about which they boast. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #185

Post by Difflugia »

Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:20 pmDon't compare us ... and don't even consider that you as an individual can wear this suit ... It's too big on you.
I'm sure it looks much better on the emperor, anyway.
My preferred pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #186

Post by PinSeeker »

Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:20 pm Our official website has been translated into more than 1000 languages to be consulted by people from all over the world who speak them. There it can be acquired as much verified biblical knowledge as has never happened before in all of human history.
I don't care about the JW website, official or otherwise, really, Eloi. I care about hearing from you... hearing you answer my questions, because this conversation is with you, and you only. If you want to keep deflecting and avoiding, that's fine with me, but that's what you are doing (or seem to be, anyway).
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:20 pm Don't compare us ... and don't even consider that you as an individual can wear this suit ... It's too big on you.
I'm not comparing anybody to anybody, and I have no idea what "suit" you are even referring to. And (this doesn't bother me either, because it is an empty presumption) I would humbly say that you should not presume to tell me (or anybody else) what I should or should not do or consider, or pronounce whether any "suit" is too big for anyone -- except that of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, because that one, without a doubt, is.

At any rate, do what you want, certainly. Do you or do you not intend to answer my questions? I really don't care either way, to be quite honest. But whether you do or do not, it will speak volumes.

Grace and peace to you.
Last edited by PinSeeker on Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #187

Post by PinSeeker »

Difflugia wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:52 pm I'm sure it looks much better on the emperor, anyway.
That it does, at least right now. We believers are, though, by the grace of God, clothed in His righteousness.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #188

Post by Tcg »

Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:03 am
The "Israel of God" are the anointed brothers of Christ. Our Governing Body is just a small part of that group that began to be chosen from Pentecost 33 AD.
Your "Governing Body" didn't begin to exist until 1884:
Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses

The Watch Tower declared that "a governing body made its appearance" some time after the formation of Zion's Watch Tower Society in 1884,[24] though it had not been referred to as such at the time.[11] The article stated that Watch Tower Society president Charles Taze Russell had been a member of the governing body.[24]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governing ... _Witnesses

History of the Jehovah’s Witnesses

The sect now known as the Jehovah’s Witnesses was started by Charles Taze Russell, who was born in 1852. He was raised a Congregationalist, but at the age of 17 he tried to convert an atheist to Christianity and ended up being converted instead—not to outright atheism, but to agnosticism. Some years later he went to an Adventist meeting, was told that Jesus would be back at any time, and got interested in the Bible.

...

It was this diminished Adventism which influenced Russell. In 1879, he began the Watch Tower—what would later be known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the teaching organ of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. In 1908 he moved its headquarters to Brooklyn, where it has remained ever since.

https://www.catholic.com/tract/history- ... -witnesses
The JWs' "Governing Body" couldn't possibly date back to Pentecost given that it was created in 1884. In fact, nothing about the JWs could date back to Pentecost given that this branch of Christendom wasn't created until 1879.

This is but one of the many issues that create problems in trying to accept the claims made by JWs.


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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #189

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:12 am [Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #2] You are confusing Jehovah's Witnesses with Christendom. In that religious world there are many who say "God told me ..."
Anyone can "say" anything. The bottom line is, what JW's said, and what actually happened are two different things.
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:12 am Is it not them that you mean? It is not us; We have never said anything like that.
I have quotes/excerpts from your own publications which says otherwise. So, you have 4 options..

1. Offer some kind of apologetics for the obvious prophecy blunders.

2. Acknowledge the obvious prophecy blunders by saying "we were wrong, our bad".

3. Remain in denial.

4. Leave the organization.

Only one good choice in there. The choice is yours.
Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:12 am Don't compare us.
If the shoe fits.
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #190

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:53 pm
tam wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:50 pm Using Daniel 4 to support the end of 'the times of the gentiles' is also a big mishmash of interpretation
Thanks for your opinion. Unless you're Jesus Christ himself I can take it or leave it. You offered no alternative explaination for the Gentile Times, so ... I'll leave it. ( I also do not hold to the timeline of your interpretation of end time events).

To the bold: which part do you not hold to?

This what I wrote:

Christ also did not return in 1914. Every eye did not see Him No one was resurrected and taken up at that time (which happens all at once - those in Christ who are alive on the earth being taken up and to meet Christ and those who had died in Him, coming with Him).

This is what Paul wrote to the Thessalonians:

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.


The above has not yet happened. No voice of an archangel, no trumpet of God, no one alive on the earth caught up to meet Christ (and those who died in Christ) in the air.


Note that Paul elaborates even further in Corinthians:

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.


See also:

**

As well, every eye has not seen Him (no matter how you interpret 'see'; every eye did not see Him in 1914).

Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him— even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

Compare also to Matt 24:30 (coming with the clouds)


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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