Christian Salvation?

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Christian Salvation?

Post #1

Post by POI »

According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

- Does a stillborn baby receive a free pass?
- Do all deceased children receive a free pass, prior to the age of enlightenment?
- Is it mandatory to believe, worship, and also attempt to follow Hm; while still knowing you will fall short of perfection in your attempts?
- Is some sort of baptism a requirement for salvation?
- Can you lack conviction that God even exists, but still be selected by your judged upon works?
- Must you keep specific Commandments all the time?
- Does blasphemy of the Holy Spirit guarantee damnation, regardless of later repentance of this prior deemed offense (i.e.) the born again Christians might be screwed?
- Are earnest deathbed conversions, by way of belief and repent to the Christian God, enough?
- Must you love God more than you love anyone on earth?
- Can you be a devout believer/follower, but choose not to give away the majority of your wealth to ones more in need than you?
- Can you be saved if you practice monogamous homosexuality until death?
Last edited by POI on Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #41

Post by myth-one.com »

POI wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:22 am
According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

Welcome POI, :D

It's really simple.

Every human will make the decision to choose between everlasting life (salvation) or everlasting death (annihilation) after understanding what both of those choices entail.

Most humans will make this decision during their second period of human life on the earth during their judgment.

Those choosing not to participate in everlasting life will quickly perish for all eternity in their "second death."
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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #42

Post by otseng »

PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:55 pm You're putting words in my mouth, and I know why. You're not "trying to understand" in any shape, way, or form. Which I've known all along.
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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #43

Post by POI »

myth-one.com wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:26 am
POI wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:22 am
According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

It's really simple.
At this point, I'm not sure I agree? But maybe you can clarify seemingly unanswered scenarios, to complete satisfaction?
myth-one.com wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:26 amEvery human will make the decision to choose between everlasting life (salvation) or everlasting death (annihilation) after understanding what both of those choices entail.
Even a stillborn, deceased infant, dead toddler, and murdered young child will have already made the decision to choose between "everlasting life (salvation) or everlasting death (annihilation)"? Meaning, what happens if there never will be any "after understanding what both of those choices entail."?
myth-one.com wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:26 amMost humans will make this decision during their second period of human life on the earth during their judgment.
Does "most humans" mean that some will not? If not, which ones are excluded? And further, what Verse(s) support this conclusion?

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #44

Post by myth-one.com »

POI wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:50 am
myth-one.com wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:26 am
POI wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:22 am
According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

It's really simple.
At this point, I'm not sure I agree? But maybe you can clarify seemingly unanswered scenarios, to complete satisfaction?
myth-one.com wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:26 amEvery human will make the decision to choose between everlasting life (salvation) or everlasting death (annihilation) after understanding what both of those choices entail.
Even a stillborn, deceased infant, dead toddler, and murdered young child will have already made the decision to choose between "everlasting life (salvation) or everlasting death (annihilation)"? Meaning, what happens if there never will be any "after understanding what both of those choices entail."?
myth-one.com wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:26 amMost humans will make this decision during their second period of human life on the earth during their judgment.
Does "most humans" mean that some will not? If not, which ones are excluded? And further, what Verse(s) support this conclusion?
No, "Most humans will make this decision during their second period of human life" means all others made their decision in their first period of life.

========================================================================
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)
All mankind are like the first man Adam in that all die. Likewise, every human who ever died shall be resurrected or made alive again. Jesus was resurrected first:
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. (I Corinthians 15:20)
The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians. This resurrection for all Christians occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming." The Second Coming is described in Revelation chapter nineteen:
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Revelation 19:11-13)
Christians who are alive on the earth when Jesus returns will be born again as spirits and meet Him in the air:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)
At this point after the first resurrection, all Christians (dead or alive) have been born again as spiritual beings. They will then enjoy the millennium with Jesus:
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)
After the millennium, all dead nonbelievers are resurrected from their graves and face judgment:
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)
After the judgment of those resurrected in the second resurrection (nonbelievers), whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Be aware that absolutely none of those resurrected at the second resurrection had their names written in the book of life when resurrected! Every single human, dead or alive, with their names written in the book of life (believers) were born again into everlasting spiritual life at the first resurrection! So why are they checking the book again? Something obviously occurred since these nonbelievers were resurrected to cause the book of life to be modified. Otherwise, there would be no reason to check the book again for their names. What happened? Nonbelievers resurrected to mortal life at the second resurrection will make their choice after understanding what the two possible choices are. If they were not given a choice on earth prior to their death, they will be given their choice after their resurrection as mortal humans in the second resurrection. From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)
Their choice will be based on being preached the true gospel message for the first time. It will be preached at this time in the entire world, before the end of the age of man can occur:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)
Recall that all dead and living Christians were born again as spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming. And there is no reason to believe that anyone will become a believer during the 1000 year millennium, as they have no preachers:
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:14)
All whose names were written in the Book of Life as believers were born again at the Second Coming. So the Book of life has been cleared. All inheritors have received their rewards. After the 1000 year Millennium, the second resurrection for mankind occurs:
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (Revelation 20:4)
Everyone raised in this second resurrection will face the great white throne judgment as all have sinned and are all headed for the second death.

The judgment will hold them responsible for their behavior as humans and some may see that God's plan for them was better than their way of life.

Satan is locked away during this time, the scriptures are unsealed, and these nonbelievers are explained the true good news of the scriptures.

Following this process, the Book of Life is checked again.

Why check the book if there were no names in it prior to the second resurrection, and everyone resurrected at the second resurrection was headed for the second death?

Would God raise these people again as physical bodies only to humiliate them during their judgment before casting them into the lake of fire? Why bother raising them from the dead only to inflict another painful physical death upon them? This flies in the face of "God is love." If the nonbelievers are being resurrected to be humiliated by judgment before being killed a second time, why not simply allow them to remain dead?

Of course, God is love, and He is raising the nonbelievers for a reason! One event prophesied to occur before the end of time is that the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)
Billions or trillions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity! The majority of all people who have ever lived have never, ever, heard the true message of the Holy Scriptures, even in the United States. Remember that the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time! At this time these people will hear the true message for the first time from angels, including Christians born again as spirits in the first resurrection, with Satan and all of his myths and lies totally defeated. Most people have never been given a choice based on Biblical truth! Their choice was based on myths and fear.

Those times will be over!

Children who die in their innocent years will make this decision after being resurrected as mortals and reaching maturity following the Second Coming of Jesus.

Many churches teach that innocent children go immediately to heaven upon their death. This is not the case. The true gospel message that every individual chooses his or her personal fate regardless of their age at death must replace the false message that murdered children go immediately to heaven for eternity.
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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #45

Post by Miles »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:46 pm
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)
All mankind are like the first man Adam in that all die. Likewise, every human who ever died shall be resurrected or made alive again. Jesus was resurrected first:
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. (I Corinthians 15:20)
The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians. This resurrection for all Christians occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming." The Second Coming is described in Revelation chapter nineteen:
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Revelation 19:11-13)
Christians who are alive on the earth when Jesus returns will be born again as spirits and meet Him in the air:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)
At this point after the first resurrection, all Christians (dead or alive) have been born again as spiritual beings. They will then enjoy the millennium with Jesus:
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)
After the millennium, all dead nonbelievers are resurrected from their graves and face judgment:
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)
After the judgment of those resurrected in the second resurrection (nonbelievers), whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Be aware that absolutely none of those resurrected at the second resurrection had their names written in the book of life when resurrected! Every single human, dead or alive, with their names written in the book of life (believers) were born again into everlasting spiritual life at the first resurrection! So why are they checking the book again? Something obviously occurred since these nonbelievers were resurrected to cause the book of life to be modified. Otherwise, there would be no reason to check the book again for their names. What happened? Nonbelievers resurrected to mortal life at the second resurrection will make their choice after understanding what the two possible choices are. If they were not given a choice on earth prior to their death, they will be given their choice after their resurrection as mortal humans in the second resurrection. From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)
Their choice will be based on being preached the true gospel message for the first time. It will be preached at this time in the entire world, before the end of the age of man can occur:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)
Recall that all dead and living Christians were born again as spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming. And there is no reason to believe that anyone will become a believer during the 1000 year millennium, as they have no preachers:
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:14)
All whose names were written in the Book of Life as believers were born again at the Second Coming. So the Book of life has been cleared. All inheritors have received their rewards. After the 1000 year Millennium, the second resurrection for mankind occurs:
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (Revelation 20:4)
Everyone raised in this second resurrection will face the great white throne judgment as all have sinned and are all headed for the second death.

The judgment will hold them responsible for their behavior as humans and some may see that God's plan for them was better than their way of life.

Satan is locked away during this time, the scriptures are unsealed, and these nonbelievers are explained the true good news of the scriptures.

Following this process, the Book of Life is checked again.

Why check the book if there were no names in it prior to the second resurrection, and everyone resurrected at the second resurrection was headed for the second death?

Would God raise these people again as physical bodies only to humiliate them during their judgment before casting them into the lake of fire? Why bother raising them from the dead only to inflict another painful physical death upon them? This flies in the face of "God is love." If the nonbelievers are being resurrected to be humiliated by judgment before being killed a second time, why not simply allow them to remain dead?

Of course, God is love, and He is raising the nonbelievers for a reason! One event prophesied to occur before the end of time is that the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)
Billions or trillions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity! The majority of all people who have ever lived have never, ever, heard the true message of the Holy Scriptures, even in the United States. Remember that the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time! At this time these people will hear the true message for the first time from angels, including Christians born again as spirits in the first resurrection, with Satan and all of his myths and lies totally defeated. Most people have never been given a choice based on Biblical truth! Their choice was based on myths and fear.

Those times will be over!

Children who die in their innocent years will make this decision after being resurrected as mortals and reaching maturity following the Second Coming of Jesus.

Many churches teach that innocent children go immediately to heaven upon their death. This is not the case. The true gospel message that every individual chooses his or her personal fate regardless of their age at death must replace the false message that murdered children go immediately to heaven for eternity.


Ya know, I don't believe all this preaching is allowed. Might want to check with boss. ;)


,

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #46

Post by myth-one.com »

Miles wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:08 pm Ya know, I don't believe all this preaching is allowed. Might want to check with boss. ;)
I was asked for a clarification -- which I provided.

Who's your "boss"?
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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #47

Post by PinSeeker »

POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:57 pm You were curious of what I had to offer?
Once you made it clear where you were coming from, I was never curious as to "what you had to offer" ~ because you made it clear. But that's surely not to say at all that I ever brushed aside or regarded as useless any of your comments, opinions, or lines of thought. And I think you would say the same to me.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:57 pm Maybe you felt you had iron clad answers?
Why yes, I do. :) And no, that's not to project myself as a "know-it-all"; I think everyone on this forum thinks that, you included. :D
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:57 pm Maybe you thought you might change my direction, or prove me wrong in something? Who knows?
Isn't this what you were trying to do? Even so, this is the first time I've ever said this in a conversation with you, but I've said many times that my job is merely to proclaim. Changing one's direction ~ actually, one's heart, which controls one's direction/will ~ is the Holy Spirit's job.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:57 pm If you again read though the conversation thread, you will see that it not you or me, whom is to blame for the inconsistency. No. It's the Book. It is not consistent.
I understand your opinion, and that you regard that as fact. Iron-clad, in fact.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:57 pm It would really be no different than you and I sharing a fictional movie, and disagreeing on the plot.
Ah well, disagreement or not, the plot is still what it is, right?
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:57 pm Too bad, it seems, that your core belief, is now forcing your hand to 'go to bat' for a Book which looks to have been provided, at best, by the 'purveyor of confusion.'
And I say it's too bad that your core belief has been and continues to force your hand to take shots at a Book breathed by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. Indeed, the grass withers and the flower fades, but the Word of our God endures forever. Even still, though, God's Word is folly to some, but the power of God to others.

Grace and peace to you.
Last edited by PinSeeker on Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #48

Post by Eloi »

[Replying to POI in post #1]
Many people confuse "salvation" with "going to heaven after death."
What do you mean with "salvation"?

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #49

Post by POI »

PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:55 pm
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Repentance would not mean anything to God, if they continue to stay married, right?
Being or staying married really has nothing to do with it. Last I checked, marriage was not a sin.
Allow me to recap. True repentance would include trying not to engage the same activity. If you do not divorce your same sex spouse, and at least attempt to only engage the opposite sex in marriage, then you are truly not remorseful for being gay, right? Furthermore, I doubt God would ever view same sex couples in 'marriage', under God, anyways?
PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:55 pm
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Thus far, it looks like the minimum requirements for salvation, according to you, are as follows: Believe and worship, and repent of ALL known sins. Why? Because you said so above. Moving along...
Actually, all I said that was required was belief and repentance, and on repentance, sins of omission and commission. That's what I said above. Funny how these discussions seem to quite often devolve into attempts to stuff words in my mouth. But, so it goes. Yes, moving along. I like that idea.
Omission looks to mean "failure to do something legal and/or moral." Commission looks to include "instructions or commands given". Thus, according to Scripture, a homosexual who acts upon their lust, is committing acts of 'omission.' According to Scripture, a homosexual whom acts upon their lust is also knowingly and willfully disobeying a direct order.
PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:55 pm
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm According to you, the minimum required is repentance.
Well, yet again, repentance and belief.
Right. Thus far, it looks like anyone who engages homosexual monogamous relationships are not granted salvation, right? You cannot truly repent of a perpetual willful sin, (i.e.) choosing to stay with your same sex partner, can you?
PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:55 pm
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm If a gay person continues to practice homosexuality, after asking for forgiveness, then are they truly repenting?
That's... the question I'm asking you, POI.
I feel we both know the same answer here.

Lev. 18-22 - "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable"

Lev. 20:13 - "If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have
committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense
."

Seems pretty clear, according to this Book, that homosexuality is a transgression against God. If a claimed Christian continues in this acknowledged sin happily, then I guess God will not view them as faithful enough, right? The reason I say so, is to what you alluded to earlier... Your acts will reflect the veracity of your faith. Willfully engaging in a detestable sin would not appear to demonstrate your faith as a believer, would it?
PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:55 pm
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Are these individuals going to hell?
Possibly. But they still have time to repent, right POI? Yes, so, possibly.
Again, we are speaking about the minimum requirements for salvation. I thought we already covered this territory? True repentance means you try not to do it again. If they remain "married" to the same sex partner, until they die, they are making no effort to truly repent, right? And if they remain "married", does God apply an exception for gay people? Or, before you die, must you instead revoke/rebuke your 'marriage' and only either engage in (legal) activity; with the opposite sex or remain celibate?
PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:55 pm
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Thus, do active practicing gay people, whom also are aware of Christianity, go to heaven or hell?
See above. Possibly.
We might be getting closer...? I'll ask again, because you seem not to want to commit. The Bible looks to be crystal clear that homosexuality a direct transgression against Him. And if you do not repent, meaning, do not immediately divorce and actively try not to have relations with the same sex, is God going to grant your salvation anyways?
PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:55 pm
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm According to you, looks like they have a one-way ticket to hell... I'm trying to pin down what YOU perceive as the minimum requirements for salvation.
Nope, and nope. You're putting words in my mouth, and I know why. You're not "trying to understand" in any shape, way, or form. Which I've known all along.
I'm literally trying to get you to commit to a position. Do active homosexuals, who continue to engage in homosexual practices until they die, go to heaven or hell? Remember, we are looking for the minimum requirements for salvation. Can claimed practicing Christian homosexuals achieve the minimum requirements for salvation?
PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:55 pm
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm I do not have to shoot any holes in there. Thus far, you are doing it for me :)
As long as you continue to use such faulty logic and attribute assertions to me that I never made, you will continue to think that, I'm sure.
Thus far, we are exploring two specifics - (homosexuality and 'wealth'). You looked to completely abandon the second topic?

1. Can a person whom dies, while practicing active homosexuality, go to heaven?
2. How do you know that you do not cherish any items more than God; and that you have successfully given away enough of your wealth to demonstrate your true faith?
PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:55 pm
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm This "conversation" is over, POI.

Grace and peace to you.
Not according to post #47.

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #50

Post by PinSeeker »

POI wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:56 pm True repentance would include trying not to engage the same activity.
Well, not engaging in the same activity.

Image

:)
POI wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:56 pm If you do not divorce your same sex spouse, and at least attempt to only engage the opposite sex in marriage, then you are truly not remorseful for being gay, right?
Um, well, in that case, I guess that person could be remorseful for his/her sin of homosexuality, although possibly not, but only recognizing of the fact that it was wrong. Even so, wouldn't the person then be guilty of a different type of sexual sin, namely polygamy? Or two, actually, polygamy and adultery... :)
POI wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:56 pm Furthermore, I doubt God would ever view same sex couples in 'marriage', under God, anyways?
It's a desecration of an institution He Himself created and gave to man for his/her benefit.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Omission looks to mean "failure to do something legal and/or moral." Commission looks to include "instructions or commands given".
Sins of omission are those in which we knew we should have done something good, but refused. A sin of commission is a sin we take action to commit, whether in thought, word, or deed. A sin of commission can be intentional or unintentional. Paul says it well in Romans 7 when he acknowledges himself as a sinner and says the very thing he knows he should not do he does, and the things he knows he should do he fails to do. I was also getting at sinning and not even being aware that it is sin, which is very possible and something we all do, at least from time to time. None of us really realizes the full gravity of our sin, even if we acknowledge our sinfulness. And of course many just deny it altogether.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Thus, according to Scripture, a homosexual who acts upon their lust, is committing acts of 'omission.' According to Scripture, a homosexual whom acts upon their lust is also knowingly and willfully disobeying a direct order.
Well, a command, and God's natural order. Is there a point you're making? Are you thinking you're correcting me on something? No matter.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Thus far, it looks like anyone who engages homosexual monogamous relationships are not granted salvation, right?
Well, God is clear that people who engage in sexually immorality ~ which can take many different forms, including homosexuality ~ and remain unrepentant will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9)
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm You cannot truly repent of a perpetual willful sin, (i.e.) choosing to stay with your same sex partner, can you?
Ah, you know, I would say that one can be truly repentant of his/her homosexual behavior and stay with his/her partner, sure. Yes, that's possible. Nothing wrong with friendship and love, even between those of the same sex, right? :) Perhaps you are not, but I'm differentiating between "staying with" someone and remaining married to that person.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Seems pretty clear, according to this Book, that homosexuality is a transgression against God. If a claimed Christian continues in this acknowledged sin happily, then I guess God will not view them as faithful enough, right?
Good. Well, I would say God would view that person as not just "not faithful enough," but unfaithful altogether.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Your acts will reflect the veracity of your faith. Willfully engaging in a detestable sin would not appear to demonstrate your faith as a believer, would it?
Right.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Again, we are speaking about the minimum requirements for salvation.
I know what we're speaking about, POI.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm If they remain "married" to the same sex partner, until they die, they are making no effort to truly repent, right?
Can they not remain "married" ~ as in a civil union, I guess ~ and still repent of their homosexuality? I would think so.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm And if they remain "married", does God apply an exception for gay people? Or, before you die, must you instead revoke/rebuke your 'marriage' and only either engage in (legal) activity; with the opposite sex or remain celibate?
Hm. A good question. I already addressed the institution of marriage. So really, repenting of homosexuality is the issue. So this is interesting. What of the person who still considers himself gay but then engages in heterosexual activity in a monogamous marriage? What of the person who considers himself homosexual but only dissolves the "marriage" between himself (or herself) and the same-sex partner, and then marries one of the opposite sex and only then engages in sexual activity with that person? Is he or she not still actually unrepentant? And desecrating, even internally, the institution of marriage and not honoring of his or her new spouse and even God Himself, even though legally within bounds? I would say the person should remain single in that case, as Paul advises.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm
PinSeeker wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:55 pm
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Thus, do active practicing gay people, whom also are aware of Christianity, go to heaven or hell?
See above. Possibly.
We might be getting closer...? I'll ask again, because you seem not to want to commit. The Bible looks to be crystal clear that homosexuality a direct transgression against Him. And if you do not repent, meaning, do not immediately divorce and actively try not to have relations with the same sex, is God going to grant your salvation anyways?
You continue to miss the point. Still, I will say, possibly. The heart is the issue. Is the heart really changed, which only God can do? Possibly. Or will the heart really be changed ~ which again, only God, by His Holy Spirit, can effect ~ at some point in the future? Possibly.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm I'm literally trying to get you to commit to a position.
Yes, I'm aware of that. You're trying to trap me in my words. Give it up. :)
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Do active homosexuals, who continue to engage in homosexual practices until they die, go to heaven or hell?
I'll repeat Paul's words again: "...do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." The unrepentant will not inherit the kingdom of God.
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Remember, we are looking for the minimum requirements for salvation.
LOL! Yes, I remember, POI. If you keep asking me the same question(s), I will continue to give you the same answer(s).
POI wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm Can claimed practicing Christian homosexuals achieve the minimum requirements for salvation?
Yes. Repentance and belief. Faith the size of a mustard seed. With man, this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.

Grace and peace to you.

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