Christian Salvation?

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Christian Salvation?

Post #1

Post by POI »

According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

- Does a stillborn baby receive a free pass?
- Do all deceased children receive a free pass, prior to the age of enlightenment?
- Is it mandatory to believe, worship, and also attempt to follow Hm; while still knowing you will fall short of perfection in your attempts?
- Is some sort of baptism a requirement for salvation?
- Can you lack conviction that God even exists, but still be selected by your judged upon works?
- Must you keep specific Commandments all the time?
- Does blasphemy of the Holy Spirit guarantee damnation, regardless of later repentance of this prior deemed offense (i.e.) the born again Christians might be screwed?
- Are earnest deathbed conversions, by way of belief and repent to the Christian God, enough?
- Must you love God more than you love anyone on earth?
- Can you be a devout believer/follower, but choose not to give away the majority of your wealth to ones more in need than you?
- Can you be saved if you practice monogamous homosexuality until death?
Last edited by POI on Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #151

Post by POI »

Prior to continuing, please allow myself to clarify a bit... My OP was more-so geared for the "generic Christian". To my knowledge, there appears to be more unity or solidarity/agreement within the smaller "sub-sets"; such as the JW's, the Mormons, the Westboro Baptists, etc... Had I realized this post would find you too, I might have expanded my OP list of questions a bit :) This thread is more-so meant to polarize the vast confusion the Bible portrays, as 'translated' by the majority. Such a post is less-so geared towards someone like you, because once I speak with one JW, it's fairly safe to say I will get roughly the same answer from the next JW. Not so much so from a non-denominational/protestant/etc.... ;) I haven't spoken to many JW's as of yet. But like I stated, from what I have seen with JW's, their central message looks to be one in the same... However, many do not seem too eager to share too much information openly with 'outsiders'?

I will be more than happy to explore your assertions, if you so wish...? I'm also aware that many JW's do not like to really converse with 'apostates'? Are you kool moving forward? I have some questions I would like to ask, if you are game. See below...

Just to give you a preface... I was brought up Catholic, later became a non-denominational, and now I simply classify myself as a skeptic to all "God belief". Shall we continue?
Jemima wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:25 pm they saw that Christianity had been completely corrupted by doctrines invented by men under the influence of the one Jesus said would introduce a fake kind of 'weedy' Christianity to draw people away....and that is what we see in Christendom. Hopelessly divided and completely alienated from God by their own adopted teachings.
How do you know Charles Taze Russell is not one of them? How do you also know the elders of the WatchTower Society are not included?
Jemima wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:25 pm So there you have the reason why we believe differently to Christendom. We cleaned up our worship by gradually getting rid of the things that contaminated it. We eliminated the trinity....teachings of an immortal soul....and hellfire, because these things are clearly from paganism, dressed up to look like Christianity. None of these are found in the Bible. But the purging did not stop there.....over time we have continued to refine our beliefs by searching the scriptures in their entirety to find the truth. Its been a very enlightening journey.
Noted. I know what you believe, quite frankly. I need little clarification from you. I will go a differing direction with you, if you are game? See below...
Jemima wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:25 pm OK, I can see that this is important to you, so lets examine the subject....

What was God's law on the consumption of blood and why did he give it in three different eras?
After the flood of Noah's day God gave this command...
"Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I have given everything to you, as I gave the green plant. 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood." (Genesis 9:3-4 NASB)

In God's law to Israel he said...
"For as for the life of all flesh, its blood is identified with its life. Therefore I said to the sons of Israel, ‘You are not to eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood; whoever eats it shall be cut off.’"
Blood is the very symbol of life and therefore it is sacred to God. No one was to consume blood because to be "cut off" meant death. So consuming or shedding blood was a capital offense.

And again in Acts 15:28-29, it it mentioned again as one of the "essential" or "necessary" things for a Christians.

So why do JW's refuse blood transfusions? Because to transfuse blood (to us) is the equivalent of 'eating' it. When a person cannot eat after perhaps a surgical procedure, they are fed intravenously, so for us the method of consumption is the same as if we were eating it. So there is the scriptural reason for why we refuse a blood transfusion. So is that a form of suicide? If you listen to the media, you would assume that it is a ridiculous thing to do if it will save your life....but is it the best therapy available? The medical profession used to think so, but now informed medical professionals are taking a different approach by avoiding blood transfusions....in fact whole hospitals are now dedicated to non-blood management of their patients and are seeing great success with less mortality and morbidity than when they were using blood routinely.

Please watch the following video that was released through the Australian Government's Blood Authority website....it was posted some time ago and even greater progress has been made since. Blood is not the "be all and end all" of medical treatment and this has shown the medical profession that we were not so wrong about blood all along.
The title really doesn't match the content.....so listen carefully for the words "morbidity" (adverse outcomes) and "mortality" (death) and see what these specialists are admitting.....

https://www.blood.gov.au/media

Over to you....
I do not see anything in this response which addresses my question? But now that you've responded, I'll modify the question a bit, and add others...

You claim receiving blood is a capital offense. Where are the boundaries exactly (i.e.)?

1. Are registered nurses, whom are also JW, whom follow orders to administer blood products, committing capital offenses themselves?
2. If you were to receive blood, will this seal your fate as an 'apostate/other"? Or, can you receive blood and still have a chance to live in paradise?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #152

Post by JehovahsWitness »

POI wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:22 pm... from what I have seen with JW's, their central message looks to be one in the same... However, many do not seem too eager to share too much information openly with 'outsiders'?
I'm sorry but I cannot let this slip by, it is demonstratively false to suggest Jehovah's Witnesses are not eagre to share their central message with [non witnesses]!

Image

Indeed JWs are arguably the most vocal of religions going literally from house to house and asking people individually to please listen while they share for free their central message. They actively use every method abilable to them to do just that. I cannot imagine a statement so far from the truth as to suggest Jehovahs Witnesses are hesistant about spreading what they see as the message of God to everyone they come in contact with.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

CHRISTIANITY, JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES and ...PUBLIC PREACHING
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #153

Post by JehovahsWitness »

POI wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:22 pm I'm ... aware that many JW's do not like to really converse with 'apostates'?

No we do not engage with apostates but I seriously doubt you are one in Jehovahs Witness terminology. An unbeliever, a non-witness (or even an ex-witnesses or someone raised in a Witnesses family that chose not to become one of Jehovahs Witnesses ) is not viewed by Jehovahs Witnesses as an apostate.





JW
Do Jehovahs engage in religious discussion with apostates? [this post]
viewtopic.php?p=1050022#p1050022

Do Jehovahs Witnesses believe the biblical directive to cut off all contact with an APOSTATE applies to marriage mates?
viewtopic.php?p=1032256#p1032256
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , SHUNNING and ... APOSTATES
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #154

Post by POI »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:35 pm
POI wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:22 pm... from what I have seen with JW's, their central message looks to be one in the same... However, many do not seem too eager to share too much information openly with 'outsiders'?
I'm sorry but I cannot let this slip by, it is demonstratively false to suggest Jehovah's Witnesses are not eagre to share their central message with [non witnesses]!

Image

Indeed JWs are arguably the most vocal of religions going literally from house to house and asking people individually to please listen while they share for free their central message. They actively use every method abilable to them to do just that. I cannot imagine a statement so far from the truth as to suggest Jehovahs Witnesses are hesistant about spreading what they see as the message of God to everyone they come in contact with.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

CHRISTIANITY, JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES and ...PUBLIC PREACHING
Please see above in bold, as to what I stated; and please also allow me to clarify a bit to avoid any further confusion. I'm aware that JW's proselytize quite often; whether it be door-to-door or out in the streets. Heck, they probably do it more, per capita, than any opposing sect? I'm also aware they have no problem handing out pamphlets.

What I should have elaborated upon, is that they do not seem very open to scrutiny. Yes, they have come to my door. Yes, I have been offered a pamphlet. But as soon as I ask some pointed questions, rather than to answer, they often abort. I do not want this to happen here. But I already notice you doing it, several times, in this forum arena. And I have only exchanged with you a few times.

I'm hoping this new interlocutor does not do the same?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #155

Post by JehovahsWitness »

POI wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:48 am Yes, they have come to my door. Yes, I have been offered a pamphlet. But as soon as I ask some pointed questions, rather than to answer, they often abort.
I cannot comment on your personal interactions with Jehovahs Witnesses in the past, I can only point out our policies which involves pubically sharing and publishing our central beliefs and teachings.


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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #156

Post by POI »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:42 pm No we do not engage with apostates but I seriously doubt you are one in Jehovahs Witness terminology. An unbeliever, a non-witness (or even an ex-witnesses or someone raised in a Witnesses family that chose not to become one of Jehovahs Witnesses ) is not viewed by Jehovahs Witnesses as an apostate.
JW's don't shun "ex-witnesses"? Are you sure?

What is your definition of an 'apostate'?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #157

Post by POI »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:54 am
POI wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:48 am Yes, they have come to my door. Yes, I have been offered a pamphlet. But as soon as I ask some pointed questions, rather than to answer, they often abort.
I cannot comment on your personal interactions with Jehovahs Witnesses in the past, I can only point out our policies which involves pubically sharing and publishing our central beliefs and teachings.
And like I said, they are not too eager to share openly. Unless you consider sticking to a tight script, open?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #158

Post by JehovahsWitness »

POI wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:58 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:42 pm No we do not engage with apostates but I seriously doubt you are one in Jehovahs Witness terminology. An unbeliever, a non-witness (or even an ex-witnesses or someone raised in a Witnesses family that chose not to become one of Jehovahs Witnesses ) is not viewed by Jehovahs Witnesses as an apostate.
JW's don't shun "ex-witnesses"? Are you sure?


Did I say that? Or did I say that an ex-witness is not "viewed by Jehovahs Witnesses as an apostate"? Which did you read?




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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #159

Post by JehovahsWitness »

POI wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:01 am ...they [ Jehovah's Witnesses ] are not too eager to share openly.


Another falshood. Its not unheard for friends and aquaintences to tell Wintesses to STOP sharing their beliefs! Jehovahs Witnesses have got to be some of the most eagre people on earth to talk about their beliefs to others. We offer people weekly indepth topic based discussions, and many millions can testify JWs are willing to sit down with non-witnesses and explain in great detail everything we believe.

Image

Further, few religions can claim to have shared practically their entire library of publications online free of charge for the general public, our website is one of if not the most visited religious website on earth and our houses of worship have always been open for anyone from the street to walk in and scrutinize what we teach and how we worship. To suggest Jehovahs Witnesses are unwilling to engage in in depth bible based exposee of their key teachings and beliefs or {quote} "share too much information openly with 'outsiders" is patently and demonstratively untrue.

Jehovahs Witnesses currently conduct an average of : 7,705,765 regular bible studies Each Month

Image

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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Christian Salvation?

Post #160

Post by POI »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:04 am
POI wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:58 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:42 pm No we do not engage with apostates but I seriously doubt you are one in Jehovahs Witness terminology. An unbeliever, a non-witness (or even an ex-witnesses or someone raised in a Witnesses family that chose not to become one of Jehovahs Witnesses ) is not viewed by Jehovahs Witnesses as an apostate.
JW's don't shun "ex-witnesses"? Are you sure?
Did I say that? Or did I say that an ex-witness is not "viewed by Jehovahs Witnesses as an apostate"? Which did you read?
If you agree that JW's shun ex-witnesses, then maybe you can tell me why ex-witnesses are shunned by JW's?

I also asked "What is your definition of an 'apostate'??" Maybe you can answer this time?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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