The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[myth-one.com]

"The wages of sin is DEATH" (Romans 6:23), and "death" is the cessation of life. There is no more consciousness for a dead person. Satan and his angels will be DEAD at the end of the Thousand Year Reign. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; Revelation 20:7-10) The Lake of Fire is SYMBOLIC for complete destruction. Notice that "death and Hades" will be thrown into the Lake of Fire as well. How can those things be literally thrown into anything? So the LoF is clearly symbolic for destruction and not to be taken literally. For the Devil to be tormented, it simply means that he will not be free to cause havoc and ruin, just like a person in jail cannot do anything that he would like to do (that is "tormenting" enough), because he will be DEAD.

Satan and his angels are spiritual beings.

God is also a spiritual being:

God is a Spirit: . . .

If Satan and his angels can die as you claim, can God die also?

[JehovahsWitness]

God is also a spiritual being:

God is a Spirit: . . .

If Satan and his angels can die as you claim, can God die also?

Apples are green
My car is green
.... therefore my car is an Apple.

Faulty logic comes from presuming a common factor means all other factors are also common. While God and angels are indeed spirits, God is an uncreated spirit while all other spirit beings had a beginning. We do well then not to assume that since God cannot die, immortality is also a commonality by virtue of being spirits. The bible indicates that that is in fact not the case, ie. that created spirits can indeed die.






JW

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #102]

God can kill one's spirit or enthusiasm, but He cannot kill a spiritual being which He created.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that new flesh being created has characteristics of its parents.

That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

So all spirits are born of God, or Spirit.

God cannot be killed, why would those born of God not be like God?

Speaking of those who shall inherit the Kingdom of God in the world to come, Jesus states:

Neither can they die any more, for they are equal unto the angels...

If believers born of the Spirit can never die, and we are equal unto the angels, then angels can never die.

God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit can never die.

Satan can never die -- as he is said to be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Can you name a spiritual bodied being which can die?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #102]

God ... cannot kill a spiritual being which He created.

God can do anything he chooses to do. Show me the scripture that says he will grant immortality to all spirits irrespective of their faithfulness or lack of ? Show me the scripture that God will géant unending life to the wicked. Your opinion is of little interest to me but if you have a scripture to prove all spirits good and evil automatically have immortality and cannot be destroyed, be my guest.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #102]

Can you name a spiritual bodied being which can die?

Jesus.

(John 1:1-4; 6:33, 41; Romans 5:8)

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #102]

Can you name a spiritual bodied being which can die?

Jesus.

(John 1:1-4; 6:33, 41; Romans 5:8)

Being a man, Jesus had a physical body.

The Word is a spiritual bodied being.

Perhaps you are confusing the two.

[myth-one.com]

God ... cannot kill a spiritual being which He created.

God can do anything he chooses to do.

There are things God cannot do.

Show me the scripture that says he will grant immortality to all spirits irrespective of their faithfulness or lack of ?

I have never made that specific claim.

My claim is that all spiritual beings already possess immortality! Why would God need to grant them another immortality? Two times forever still equals forever.

Show me the scripture that God will grant unending life to the wicked.

God will never grant unending life to the wicked. I never made that claim!!!!

He will undoubted grant immortality to some who were formally wicked.

Your opinion is of little interest to me but if you have a scripture to prove all spirits good and evil automatically have immortality and cannot be destroyed, be my guest.

All spiritual bodied beings were created to live forever.

That is true according to the scriptures.

I have already quoted such scriptures. Apparently you did not believe them.

Do you want to see them again?

Perhaps I can simplify them for you and maybe add more proof.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #102]

Can you name a spiritual bodied being which can die?

Jesus.

(John 1:1-4; 6:33, 41; Romans 5:8)

Being a man, Jesus had a physical body.

The Word is a spiritual bodied being.

Perhaps you are confusing the two.

It doesn't matter. Jesus was a spirit before he was a man. (John 1:1-4) Thus spirit beings can die. (Romans 5:8) If Jesus didn't actually die then there is no resurrection and we are still living in our sins and there is no hope. (1 Cor 15:12-19)

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #102]

Can you name a spiritual bodied being which can die?

Jesus.

(John 1:1-4; 6:33, 41; Romans 5:8)

Being a man, Jesus had a physical body.

The Word is a spiritual bodied being.

Perhaps you are confusing the two.

It doesn't matter. Jesus was a spirit before he was a man. (John 1:1-4) Thus spirit beings can die. (Romans 5:8) If Jesus didn't actually die then there is no resurrection and we are still living in our sins and there is no hope. (1 Cor 15:12-19)

<==================================>

Here's why it matters:

The Word (a spiritual bodied being) was made flesh (a natural bodied being) as the man Jesus Christ for the purpose of dying:

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Do you understand that?

If so, then if spiritual bodies can die as you claim, there would have been no reason for the Word (a spiritual bodied being) to be made flesh so that He could die.

<===================================================>

Humans who believe in Jesus as their Savior shall inherit everlasting life. Do you believe that?

There are only two type of living bodies -- natural and spiritual. Do you accept that as true?

If there are only two type of living beings, physical and spiritual, and if both type of beings can die -- then how can God promise everlasting life to anyone?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #102]

Can you name a spiritual bodied being which can die?

Jesus.

(John 1:1-4; 6:33, 41; Romans 5:8)

Being a man, Jesus had a physical body.

The Word is a spiritual bodied being.

Perhaps you are confusing the two.

It doesn't matter. Jesus was a spirit before he was a man. (John 1:1-4) Thus spirit beings can die. (Romans 5:8) If Jesus didn't actually die then there is no resurrection and we are still living in our sins and there is no hope. (1 Cor 15:12-19)

<==================================>

Here's why it matters:

The Word (a spiritual bodied being) was made flesh (a natural bodied being) as the man Jesus Christ for the purpose of dying:

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Do you understand that?

If so, then if spiritual bodies can die as you claim, there would have been no reason for the Word (a spiritual bodied being) to be made flesh so that He could die.

<===================================================>

Humans who believe in Jesus as their Savior shall inherit everlasting life. Do you believe that?

There are only two type of living bodies -- natural and spiritual. Do you accept that as true?

If there are only two type of living beings, physical and spiritual, and if both type of beings can die -- then how can God promise everlasting life to anyone?

Just because Jesus was made flesh and died in the flesh doesn't mean no spirit can die if they are a spirit. It does show that even the Son of God can die.

Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death. (Rev 20:10,14) Satan is a spirit and so are all of his demon followers.
There are those in the book of life and those that are not. Those that are not in the book of life are hurled into the lake of fire, which is the second death. Rev 20:15 notes that 'whomever' is not in the book of life. This would cover anyone or anything, spirit or flesh.