The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #503]

Jesus' presence is with us here, even though most of the world doesn't know it (because of the failure of the churches to teach their people). He will reveal himself at the end of the Great Tribulation when the world is cognizant of his coming to rid the earth of evil, Armageddon. You need to freshen up your ideas about the timeline.

The Lord according to Psalms 110:1 is sitting at the right hand of God, until "I make Thine enemies a footstool for thy feet". The present "ruler of the world" is the devil and his demons, and Yeshua had to leave in order to send the Comforter. The "timeline" is pretty apparent, in that the son of man comes "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), when "his angels" will then "gather together" "His elect". You have put the cart before the horse. The tribulation is still ongoing, and the "great tribulation" (Haro-Magedon) is around the corner, in which the nations will fall upon Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:1-4), whereas you will have a "great earthquake" (Revelation 16:16-21).

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #310]

Hopefully all people that have been following this thread will themselves go to the links that have been proved by JehovahsWitness and tigger and 2timothy. It makes perfect sense, combined with all other Scripture.

It makes sense in the fulfilling Daniel 12:10, in that "none of the wicked will understand". If the JWs, who were kind of formed in the late 19th century, and named in the 20th century, are the "holy people", how were they "shattered" for time, times and half a time from the time of the "another king" of Daniel 7:25 & Daniel 12:7? Your arguments seem a little convoluted when looking at real history. The OT is built around the judgments of Israel and Judah (Joel 5), and the future establishment of the kingdom of a rejoined Judah and Israel (Ezekiel 37). The JWs are simply expropriating someone else's histories, past, present and future.

[JehovahsWitness]

If the JWs, ...are the "holy people", how were they "shattered" for time, times and half a time from the time of the "another king" of Daniel 7:25 & Daniel 12:7?

Are you suggesting that nobody chosen by God can be possibly be persecuted or even killed?

[2ndpillar2]

If the JWs, ...are the "holy people", how were they "shattered" for time, times and half a time from the time of the "another king" of Daniel 7:25 & Daniel 12:7?

Are you suggesting that nobody chosen by God can be possibly be persecuted or even killed?

I am saying that it is Israel/Ephraim, and Judah who are under judgment of God, and are being "torn to pieces" (Hosea 5) until they "acknowledge their guilt" (confess). The holy people in today's arena, are Judah, the Jews, not some 19th century sect, now called the JWs, who according to Revelation 11:2, the nations/Gentiles, will "tread under foot" the "outer court", and the "holy city", at least until 1948.

[JehovahsWitness]

The holy people in today's arena, are Judah, the Jews ...

Well I do not agree. The descendents of Abraham as a people do not figure in any end time prophecy because the Jews were rejected as a people following their rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. God's people today are spirit anointed born again Christians.



JW





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[2ndpillar2]

The holy people in today's arena, are Judah, the Jews ...

Well I do not agree. The descendents of Abraham as a people do not figure in any end time prophecy because the Jews were rejected as a people following their rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. God's people today are spirit anointed born again Christians.

JW

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I can see where anyone following the false gospel of the false prophet Paul, might follow that message of the "enemy/devil" (Matthew 13), but if one simply reads the prophets in context, and not take them out context, and not use that content in an out of context manner, they will come up with a different commentary. If you read the prophets, such as Hosea 3, you will find that the son of man Hosea, will buy an adulteress for the equivalent of 30 shekels of silver until the sons of Israel return to the LORD their God, and David their king, in the "last days" (Hosea 3:5). Hosea will only stay with that adulteress for "many days", or in the words of Hosea 6:2, until "after two days", 2000 years. I suggest that you read Ezekiel 36 and 37 from start to finish, with emphasis on Ezekiel 37:16-28. Those with the mark will drink from the cup of the wrath of God (Revelation 14:10).

[onewithhim]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #503]

Jesus' presence is with us here

What does that even mean?

He is looking on from heaven and is very involved in end-time activities, directing his organization to finish its preaching work before the end comes (Matthew 24:14).

How is that any different from the last two thousand years?

For the last 2,000 years there has been no representative of Jehovah on any throne. The issues in the book of Daniel tell us this, as well as other books, like Ezekiel and Revelation. When Jerusalem fell in 607 BC, the crown was removed from the kingship and was given to no one until he arrived who deserved it. (Ezekiel 21:26) That was "the times of the nations" or the "Gentile times." What does that mean? That the nations can do whatever they please without God's interference. He started interfering again in 1914, and we could see that everything went crazy then because Satan was cast out of heaven---the first act of Jesus' enthronement as King (Revelation 12:7-9).

[2ndpillar2]

The holy people in today's arena, are Judah, the Jews ...

Well I do not agree. The descendents of Abraham as a people do not figure in any end time prophecy because the Jews were rejected as a people following their rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. God's people today are spirit anointed born again Christians.



JW





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viewtopic.php?p=875857#p875857

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viewtopic.php?p=1067743#p1067743

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The descendants of Abraham, whose name means father of nations/peoples, those under the covenant "I had made with the peoples", the covenant of circumcision (Zechariah 11:10), was cut by my "staff"/shepherd/"Favor", who was one of the shepherds (Paul) taken to "pasture" the "flock doomed to slaughter", the "Christian" church. The Jews, Judah, still abide in the covenant, whereas the "flock doomed for slaughter", the "Christian" church, in general, does not. Prior to the judgment of the nations (Joel 3:2), Judah and Jerusalem will be restored (Joel 3:1). Judah, the Jews, have been restored to Jerusalem, and judgment day is now at the door. To be a "Christian", one, in general, has the mark of the beast, the keeping of the decrees of the Roman emperor Constantine, one of which is that one cannot work or purchase anything on the day of the sun, Sunday, per his 321 A.D. decree.

[2ndpillar2]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #503]

Jesus' presence is with us here

What does that even mean?

He is looking on from heaven and is very involved in end-time activities, directing his organization to finish its preaching work before the end comes (Matthew 24:14).

How is that any different from the last two thousand years?

For the last 2,000 years there has been no representative of Jehovah on any throne. The issues in the book of Daniel tell us this, as well as other books, like Ezekiel and Revelation. When Jerusalem fell in 607 BC, the crown was removed from the kingship and was given to no one until he arrived who deserved it. (Ezekiel 21:26) That was "the times of the nations" or the "Gentile times." What does that mean? That the nations can do whatever they please without God's interference. He started interfering again in 1914, and we could see that everything went crazy then because Satan was cast out of heaven---the first act of Jesus' enthronement as King (Revelation 12:7-9).

The "ruler of the world" is the dragon/devil, and the dragon gave his authority to the beast (Revelation 13:4), and the beast is now Rome (Iron mixed with clay) (Daniel 2:45), and it was Rome (iron) in 70 A.D. who destroyed Jerusalem, and it was Rome (in the form of the Kaiser/Caesar), and the Ottomans (clay), who held Jerusalem until 1918, until Britain and her provincial partners threw out the Germans and the Ottomans. The U.S. didn't even get into the fight until 1917. Russia and China, supposed cowinners of the 2nd World War, still think they are running the show, just because they bought a U.S. president, and feel they can black mail and buy Congress and the Senate, and kowtow a sitting U.S. president. God's hand was best viewed in 1967, during the Israeli war, in which Judah was like a torch among the surrounding neighbors (Zechariah 12:6). Few people of the world even know who the JWs are. They are neither in power, nor are they even recognized.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #519]
Satan did give authority to the beast (world governments), but the beast is not now Rome. Iron mixed with clay describes the part of the beast that is now the Duo World Power of Great Britain and the U.S.A. We are that close to the end of this system of things when Jesus eradicates all of men's governments and sets up his own government over the earth. (Daniel 2:44; Isaiah 9:6,7)