The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

Are you one of the 144,000?

If not why not?

Regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim,

Are you one of the 144,000?

If not why not?

Regards,
RW

No....because I don't want to go to heaven. I'm glad that Jehovah is causing his original purpose for the earth to come to fruition. Jehovah "took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it." (Genesis 2:15) He said, "My word that goes out of my mouth will not return to me without results, but it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight, and it will have sure success in what I sent it to do." (Isaiah 55:11) "As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, but the earth he has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16)

This is the hope of the majority of mankind. There was no mention of going to heaven until Jesus arrived, and his search for co-rulers in the heavens was what took up his time. The message was that his government in heaven would rule over the earth with righteous people living on it forever. (Matthew 5:5; Revelation 20:4,6; Psalm 37:11,29)

[Checkpoint]

Dear Onewithhim,

Are you one of the 144,000?

If not why not?

Regards,
RW

No....because I don't want to go to heaven. I'm glad that Jehovah is causing his original purpose for the earth to come to fruition. Jehovah "took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it." (Genesis 2:15) He said, "My word that goes out of my mouth will not return to me without results, but it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight, and it will have sure success in what I sent it to do." (Isaiah 55:11) "As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, but the earth he has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16)

This is the hope of the majority of mankind. There was no mention of going to heaven until Jesus arrived, and his search for co-rulers in the heavens was what took up his time. The message was that his government in heaven would rule over the earth with righteous people living on it forever. (Matthew 5:5; Revelation 20:4,6; Psalm 37:11,29)

Naturally, onewithhim, what you write is what you have heard from what you have listened to and what you have read.

Me too. What I have heard and read tells a different story that has a different interpretation and has a different conclusion.

i'll briefly share this as an edit, tomorrow.

Jehovah's original purpose for mankind has not changed.

The following statement of yours is so very far from reality.

There was no mention of going to heaven until Jesus arrived, and his search for co-rulers in the heavens was what took up his time. The message was that his government in heaven would rule over the earth with righteous people living on it forever.

After Jesus arrived, he did not spend his time searching for 144,000 co-rulers.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #553]

Indeed. How do you come to that conclusion? It's pretty clear that he was looking for co-rulers to guide those people on the earth (the righteous/ Psalm 37:29) to fulfill Jehovah's original purpose. (Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 5:10 ; Revelation 20:6) Apparently a rulership was needed to help bring the earth back to where Jehovah purposed it to be in the beginning. How can you say that this wasn't what Jehovah wanted? Why would his purpose be thwarted?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #553]

Indeed. How do you come to that conclusion? It's pretty clear that he was looking for co-rulers to guide those people on the earth (the righteous/ Psalm 37:29) to fulfill Jehovah's original purpose. (Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 5:10 ; Revelation 20:6) Apparently a rulership was needed to help bring the earth back to where Jehovah purposed it to be in the beginning. How can you say that this wasn't what Jehovah wanted? Why would his purpose be thwarted?

His purpose was not thwarted. Instead, He thwarts others.

Psalm 33: 10-12
10 The Lord foils the plans of the nations;
He thwarts the purposes of the peoples.
11 But the plans of the Lord stand firm forever,
the purposes of His heart through all generations.
12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord,
the people He chose for His inheritance.

The 144,000 of JW theology do not fulfil that purpose.

Well now, is this about Jehovah's original purpose, or about the 144,000 in JW theology?

They are not one and the same.

What was God's original purpose for mankind, and where is this stated in Scripture?

As for the 144,000 in JW theology, where are they in the 4 Gospels, in Acts, and in Paul's letters?

[Eloi]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #553]

Indeed. How do you come to that conclusion? It's pretty clear that he was looking for co-rulers to guide those people on the earth (the righteous/ Psalm 37:29) to fulfill Jehovah's original purpose. (Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 5:10 ; Revelation 20:6) Apparently a rulership was needed to help bring the earth back to where Jehovah purposed it to be in the beginning. How can you say that this wasn't what Jehovah wanted? Why would his purpose be thwarted?

His purpose was not thwarted. The 144,000 of JW theology do not fulfil that purpose.

Well now, is this about Jehovah's original purpose, or about the 144,000 in JW theology?

They are not one and the same.

What was God's original purpose for mankind, and where is this stated in Scripture?

As for the 144,000 in JW theology, where are they in the 4 Gospels, in Acts, and in Paul's letters?

Well, you got some references in Revelation.

Peter, for his part, tells us under inspiration:

1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this very salvation a diligent inquiry and a careful search were made by the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for YOU. 11 They kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of [season] the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these. 12 It was revealed to them that, not to themselves, but to YOU, they were ministering the things that have now been announced to YOU through those who have declared the good news to YOU with holy spirit sent forth from heaven. Into these very things angels are desiring to peer.

Analyze and answer me what you think of these two things, please:

1) Do you think that the priests had different privileges and functions from the rest of the Israelites? Why?

2) If the Jews had accepted the Messiah, can you imagine what the human government system on the planet would have been like?

The 144,000 are the priests in the new covenant; they alone will constitute the rulers (along with Jesus) of humanity on the entire planet in the future. They are not going to serve on earth, but are going to be where the actual temple of God is... like the priests in Israel.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #553]

Indeed. How do you come to that conclusion? It's pretty clear that he was looking for co-rulers to guide those people on the earth (the righteous/ Psalm 37:29) to fulfill Jehovah's original purpose. (Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 5:10 ; Revelation 20:6) Apparently a rulership was needed to help bring the earth back to where Jehovah purposed it to be in the beginning. How can you say that this wasn't what Jehovah wanted? Why would his purpose be thwarted?

His purpose was not thwarted. The 144,000 of JW theology do not fulfil that purpose.

Well now, is this about Jehovah's original purpose, or about the 144,000 in JW theology?

They are not one and the same.

What was God's original purpose for mankind, and where is this stated in Scripture?

As for the 144,000 in JW theology, where are they in the 4 Gospels, in Acts, and in Paul's letters?

Well, you got some references in Revelation.

Peter, for his part, tells us under inspiration:

1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this very salvation a diligent inquiry and a careful search were made by the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for YOU. 11 They kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of [season] the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these. 12 It was revealed to them that, not to themselves, but to YOU, they were ministering the things that have now been announced to YOU through those who have declared the good news to YOU with holy spirit sent forth from heaven. Into these very things angels are desiring to peer.

Analyze and answer me what you think of these two things, please:

1) Do you think that the priests had different privileges and functions from the rest of the Israelites? Why?

2) If the Jews had accepted the Messiah, can you imagine what the human government system on the planet would have been like?

The 144,000 are the priests in the new covenant; they alone will constitute the rulers (along with Jesus) of humanity on the entire planet in the future. They are not going to serve on earth, but are going to be where the actual temple of God is... like the priests in Israel.

1) Yes. This is explained in Hebrews. That was temporary, under the Old Covenant.

Jesus instituted the New Covenant. In this New Covenant, Jesus is the High Priest and all believers are royal priestsand comprise the temple of God.

The 144,00 are neither excluded nor exnclusive.

2) That did not happen. There is no point in any "what if" imagining.

[Eloi]

Well, you got some references in Revelation.

Peter, for his part, tells us under inspiration:

1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this very salvation a diligent inquiry and a careful search were made by the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for YOU. 11 They kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of [season] the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these. 12 It was revealed to them that, not to themselves, but to YOU, they were ministering the things that have now been announced to YOU through those who have declared the good news to YOU with holy spirit sent forth from heaven. Into these very things angels are desiring to peer.

Analyze and answer me what you think of these two things, please:

1) Do you think that the priests had different privileges and functions from the rest of the Israelites? Why?

2) If the Jews had accepted the Messiah, can you imagine what the human government system on the planet would have been like?

The 144,000 are the priests in the new covenant; they alone will constitute the rulers (along with Jesus) of humanity on the entire planet in the future. They are not going to serve on earth, but are going to be where the actual temple of God is... like the priests in Israel.

1) Yes. This is explained in Hebrews. That was temporary, under the Old Covenant.

Jesus instituted the New Covenant. In this New Covenant, Jesus is the High Priest and all believers are royal priestsand comprise the temple of God.

The 144,00 are neither excluded nor exnclusive.

And then what is so strange to you that he has chosen from all those who will be saved, a small group to be kings and priests in heaven?

2) That did not happen. There is no point in any "what if" imagining.

That is true, it did not happen, but look that I am not speculating about something alien to the history of Israel:

Ex. 19:6 "You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.”

They were a chosen people among all nations. But they were rejected because of their disobedience and their rejection of the Messiah. It may not have been so.

Do you believe that Jehovah's servants before Christ are ruling and serving as priests in heaven, or that they will go there when they are resurrected? You seem to misunderstand the role of a small group of priests and kings over a larger group of God's servants. That is why I quote you the examples of antiquity; they are supposed to teach us things, because they were symbols of greater realities.

PD: there is nothing new when some people want some positions that do not belong to them ... It happened a lot of times in the past, as we can read on the Bible.

[Checkpoint]

Well, you got some references in Revelation.

Peter, for his part, tells us under inspiration:

1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this very salvation a diligent inquiry and a careful search were made by the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for YOU. 11 They kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of [season] the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these. 12 It was revealed to them that, not to themselves, but to YOU, they were ministering the things that have now been announced to YOU through those who have declared the good news to YOU with holy spirit sent forth from heaven. Into these very things angels are desiring to peer.

Analyze and answer me what you think of these two things, please:

1) Do you think that the priests had different privileges and functions from the rest of the Israelites? Why?

2) If the Jews had accepted the Messiah, can you imagine what the human government system on the planet would have been like?

The 144,000 are the priests in the new covenant; they alone will constitute the rulers (along with Jesus) of humanity on the entire planet in the future. They are not going to serve on earth, but are going to be where the actual temple of God is... like the priests in Israel.

1) Yes. This is explained in Hebrews. That was temporary, under the Old Covenant.

Jesus instituted the New Covenant. In this New Covenant, Jesus is the High Priest and all believers are royal priests and comprise the temple of God.

The 144,00 are neither excluded nor exclusive.

And then what is so strange to you that he has chosen from all those who will be saved, a small group to be kings and priests in heaven?

He has? According to JW theology, yes. But according to the Bible, no. Is that strange to you?

2) That did not happen. There is no point in any "what if" imagining.

That is true, it did not happen, but look that I am not speculating about something alien to the history of Israel:

Ex. 19:6 "You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.”

They were a chosen people among all nations. But they were rejected because of their disobedience and their rejection of the Messiah. It may not have been so.

Do you believe that Jehovah's servants before Christ are ruling and serving as priests in heaven, or that they will go there when they are resurrected? You seem to misunderstand the role of a small group of priests and kings over a larger group of God's servants. That is why I quote you the examples of antiquity; they are supposed to teach us things, because they were symbols of greater realities.

Greater realities indeed.

For instance, Jesus became our High Priest.

But not of the Aaronic Israelite order, but after the order of a non-Israelite, Melchizedek.

PD: there is nothing new when some people want some positions that do not belong to them ... It happened a lot of times in the past, as we can read on the Bible.

As is the position assigned by JW theology to the 144,000.

[Eloi]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #559]
Our understanding of the Scriptures is unique, that is true. The reason is that we do not have a "theology" as you call it, but rather we thoroughly study the Scriptures and if we understand that the previous way of interpreting was incorrect, then we correct our way of understanding. It is clear that this does not concern any of the more than 8 million Witnesses around the world, but without a doubt we all have an active participation in the matter, since if we have doubts we raise them in the correct way and to the correct people, and we don't go around dividing the congregation nor are we going to ask those whom you accept as theologians; otherwise we would be part of Christendom, like you.

Now tell us: is your theology a particular one of your own? Is it a collective one, belonging to a particular group of interpreters? Is it an "inclusive" theology, admitting all the different and contradictory ways of understanding the Scriptures of all who wish to give their own interpretation?¿Or is it only admited the understanding of certain group, as you acuse us to do?

Then tell us: what are the real fruits of this group of one or more, or infinite theologians? Can they teach anything to whom they teach? Or maybe they just tell people: "so-and-so believes such a thing, but megan this other, and this other this something else. You can believe any of them, or discover another one for yourself if you wish"? That's how it works? Tell me how that is a real Christian congregation. According to your own theology, all these people are kings and priests, but none of us can be?