Peace to you!
PinSeeker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:21 pm
tam wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:37 pm
PinSeeker wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:17 pm
tam wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:02 am
The "rest of" a group cannot mean the total group. It cannot.
That's
totally not what I said. You
totally misread my comment.
Did I? I apologize then.
No apology necessary, really. We just "missed each other" on that, so to speak.
Thank you.
tam wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:37 pm
The first group (those who came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years) are the dead in Christ (Christians who die before Christ returns). The second group (the rest of the dead who do not come to life until the thousand years are ended), are non-Christian; these ones take part in the
second resurrection (the resurrection of the dead), at Rev 20:12-15.
Nope. All (members of both groups) are in Christ, and in this sense they are, together, one group. The first group are the martyrs at the beginning of the church age, and the second group are those that come to life over the course of the Millennium ~ those who are born again of the Spirit in their lifetimes and
as a group (not as individuals, although it certainly happens individually), the fullness of the body of Christ is not complete
"until the thousand years are ended," exactly as Revelation 20:5 states.
I'm just going to point something out here (after having read one of eloi's threads):
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about [Jesus] and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
Those who were beheaded for their testimony about Christ, FIRST testified about Christ (how else could they be beheaded FOR their testimony), THEN they were beheaded, and THEN they came to life (the first resurrection).
They had already testified and been beheaded for their testimony,
before coming to life (as described here at the first resurrection).
How does that mesh with what you are saying? It sounds to me as though your belief states that they came to life first, then testified to Christ, then were executed.
The second resurrection of Revelation 20:12-15 is a general resurrection of all ~ those in Christ (separated to His right; "the wheat") and those not in Christ (those separated to His left; the "tares") as depicted by Christ Jesus in Matthew 13 and 25 ~ else they could not all, "great and small, standing before the throne" and thus be "judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done," as those verses clearly state happens.
Revelation 20:12-15 does not state that
all come to stand before the throne and are judged according to their books.
Revelation 20:12-15 is speaking only about the dead.
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.
There are no Christians in view here.
Christians are not among the dead (they had already come to life - in both senses of that phrase).
Yes, I know you disagree, Tammy, but I think one must say, even despite possibly remaining in disagreement, that this reading of Revelation 20:4-6 "makes sense."
Not when all things are considered, no, I am sorry, but it does not. At the very least, the above questions and discrepancies remain outstanding.
As well, as you know, many people claim many conflicting things "make sense", using various books and phrases in the bible to support their conflicting doctrines, or even making the claim that this is what the bible really says 'as a whole'... and yet they are still in conflict, sometimes with each others, but also with Christ.
The only way to KNOW what is
true (not just what one thinks "makes sense") is to listen to and learn from the One who IS the Truth, the only One who can lead us into ALL truth.
Peace again to you and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy