#4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

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#4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”
The above seems to imply:
- hell is eternal torment.
- tormented and smoke of their torment rises forever and ever.
- No rest day or night.
- This implies that death is not non-existence, one group will rest and one group will not rest.

Does anyone disagree that this implies conscious eternal torment with no rest day or night?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: #4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

Post #11

Post by myth-one.com »

Wootah wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:39 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #9]
Unsaved:
There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image
Saved:
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”
How are the unsaved not resting from their labour under your view?
The unsaved are resting from their labor under my view.

So are the saved.

All who have ever died are now resting awaiting their resurrection.

There will be no rest for those who suffer the second death, as there will be no resurrection from the second death.

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Re: #4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

Post #12

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #11]

What will happen to them after the second death that is different to what happens after the first death?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: #4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

Post #13

Post by myth-one.com »

Wootah wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:04 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #11]

What will happen to them after the second death that is different to what happens after the first death?
They are resurrected after their first death.

They are never resurrected after their second death. They will never live again.

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Re: #4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

Post #14

Post by Wootah »

myth-one.com wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:10 pm
Wootah wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:04 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #11]

What will happen to them after the second death that is different to what happens after the first death?
They are resurrected after their first death.

They are never resurrected after their second death. They will never live again.
But you wrote: When one's "first death" occurs, one is said to sleep, slumber, or rest upon being buried -- Rest In Peace. The first death is described in this manner because everyone who ever died will be resurrected from their first death. Since we will all live again, we are not really dead -- as true death is permanent. Thus we are resting awaiting resurrection.

So after the second death, they are back to the first rest? What changed? When do they experience unrest?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: #4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

Post #15

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Wootah wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:32 am Does anyone disagree that this implies conscious eternal torment with no rest day or night?
Were does it mention "the dead" being tormented? Does the passage mention anyone being tortured after being killed/dying? It is a presumption this alludes to torment after physical death ( compare Isaiah 34:9-12)




How can Revelation 14 : 9-13 be explained?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 66#p337866[/quote]



To learn more please go to other posts related to...

BIBLE "HELL", THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...HELLFIRE TORTURE DEBUNKED
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: #4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

Post #16

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

If it is not eternal torment what is the estimate of annihilationists for how long it will be?

Does instant death equal drinking the full cup of God's wrath? How many seconds of torment do you think is adequate?

How much pain makes God not loving in your mind?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: #4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

Post #17

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #15]

Actually, you defeat yourself. The dead can't be tormented can they - ergo they aren't dead.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: #4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

Post #18

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:02 pm The dead know not any thing.
Right, but in the context where that statement is made, the dead are those absent from life under the sun. They are no longer present in this life. You continue to take it completely out of context.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: #4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

Post #19

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Wootah wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:48 am [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #15]

Actually, you defeat yourself. The dead can't be tormented can they - ergo they aren't dead.
Exactly,! The passage is NOT speaking of the torment of people who have died physically and been seperated from their physical bodies whose souls are tormented in a so-called "afterlife" of a firely hell. It is speaking about the mental anguish of the wicked before they cease to exist in any form in death.




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Re: #4 Bible on Hell - Revelation 14:9-13

Post #20

Post by myth-one.com »

PinSeeker wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:45 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:02 pm The dead know not any thing.
Right, but in the context where that statement is made, the dead are those absent from life under the sun. They are no longer present in this life. You continue to take it completely out of context.

Grace and peace to you.
Located under the sun or not, the dead know not any thing.

You are correct that they are no longer present in this life -- because they are dead.

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