Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

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Wootah
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Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Many here seem to believe Gehenna is just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem and not a reference to hell.

Pulling an argument from this video (around the 16-minute mark):

Mark 9 vs 43-49 says: And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Why does Jesus talk about entering into life and the rubbish tip outside Jerusalem in the same sentence? Do you really believe people thought hey let's follow Jesus so we don't go into the rubbish tip outside Jerusalem or do you think they knew Jesus meant hell?

Also since that rubbish tip's fire is quenched now and has been for a long time then doesn't that mean Jesus is a liar when he says that the fire there never shall be quenched?
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Re: Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

Post #81

Post by Checkpoint »

Wootah wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:58 am
Checkpoint wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:10 pm
Wootah wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:51 pm [Replying to Checkpoint in post #68]
No, the sin nature will not live on. It is an integral part of the old order that will then pass away. Sin will not be eternal.
Agreed - for Christians that will be gone. For non-Christians they will get to be fully themselves forever.
Regrettably, but not surprisingly, we have not agreed.

Non-Christians will not get to be anything, other than to be gone for good, gone completely.
That is not going to be happening anywhere, any time, following eternal judgment.
What happens to sinners in your view?
Do you mean at the Judgment, or after the Judgment is completed?
You wrote: "That is not going to be happening anywhere, any time, following eternal judgment."

So my question is following eternal judgement, What happens to sinners in your view? Elaborate as much as you wish :)
Ha! Or as little as.

I already answered that question this way:

"[Sinners] will not get to be (doing) anything, other than to be gone for good, gone completely."

So my answer is, nothing happens to sinners following the
Judgment.

They will have passed away, as they were of the old order. Revelation 21:1,4.

"

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Re: Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

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Post by PinSeeker »

Checkpoint wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:56 pm
Wootah wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:58 am You wrote: "That is not going to be happening anywhere, any time, following eternal judgment." So my question is following eternal judgement, What happens to sinners in your view?
I already answered that question this way: "[Sinners] will not get to be (doing) anything, other than to be gone for good, gone completely." So my answer is, nothing happens to sinners following the
Judgment. They will have passed away, as they were of the old order.
Excuse me, but might I break in for a moment? :D Yeah, so, understood, Checkpoint. So given your answer here, how do you reconcile that with the following passages?
  • "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2 ESV)
  • "And (God the Father) has given (Jesus) authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." (John 5:27-29)
  • "And [the wicked] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46 ESV)
Grace and peace to you, my friend.

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Re: Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

Post #83

Post by Eloi »

The resurrected (just or unjust) will not be judged for what they did before they died. They will live in paradise on earth with the survivors of the great tribulation, and as Rev. 20 says, all of them will be tested at the end of the Millennium. The risen ones who turn away from justice at the end of the Millennium will have wasted the opportunity they had, and this time they will be condemned forever (that's what it is "a resurrection of judgment" _ John 5:29). It is obvious that if the Bible says that the Devil deceives many people at the end of the thousand years, it is because he has presented them with a new test. At the end of the Millennium all humans living on earth will have reached human perfection; the test they will have to face will be of a different character.

When you study the issue of the Millennium in Revelation, you understand all those details, and many more.

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Re: Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

Post #84

Post by PinSeeker »

Eloi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:36 pm The resurrected (just or unjust) will not be judged for what they did before they died.
This is a direct refutation of what Jesus said in John 5, as noted above ~ as well as what we read in:

Matthew 25:31-46 ~ "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and He will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ "

"Then He will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Romans 2:6-8 ~ "He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

...and:

Revelation 20:12 ~ "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done."
Eloi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:36 pm When you study the issue of the Millennium in Revelation, you understand all those details, and many more.
To imply that I haven't studied it (which is what you were just chastised by BustNak for) is quite ridiculous. Our disagreement concerning the Millennium is well-documented.

Grace and peace to you, Eloi.
Last edited by PinSeeker on Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

Post #85

Post by Eloi »

PinSeeker wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:50 pm
Eloi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:36 pm The resurrected (just or unjust) will not be judged for what they did before they died.
This is a direct refutation of what Jesus said in John 5, as noted above ~ and what we read in Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 2:6-8, and Revelation 20:12, also.
Eloi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:36 pm When you study the issue of the Millennium in Revelation, you understand all those details, and many more.
To imply that I haven't studied it (which is what you were just chastised by BustNak for) is quite ridiculous. Our disagreement concerning the Millennium is well-documented.

Grace and peace to you, Eloi.
I am putting you in my ignore list. You can learn something from my posts, though.
Now you know I am chastising you out of my time. ;)

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Re: Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

Post #86

Post by PinSeeker »

Eloi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:54 pm I am putting you in my ignore list.
That doesn't bother me; I'm quite okay with that. Ignoring truths seems to be a pandemic... see what I did there? :)... of sorts, here, there, and everywhere.
Eloi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:54 pm You can learn something from my posts, though.
Well, you know, you railed against conceit just a few posts ago, but this is inarguably a very conceited statement... :) Anyway, sure, what not to believe, at least to a large extent. :D But, what you say here... I would say right back to you.
Eloi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:54 pm Now you know I am chastizing you out of my time.
Time is not your own, Eloi. Which is also true for me and everyone else, of course. And... some chastisements are blessings.

Grace and peace to you, Eloi.

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Re: Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

Post #87

Post by otseng »

PinSeeker wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:13 pm Well, you know, you railed against conceit just a few posts ago, but this is inarguably a very conceited statement... :) Anyway, sure, what not to believe, at least to a large extent. :D But, what you say here... I would say right back to you.
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Re: Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

Post #88

Post by Checkpoint »

PinSeeker wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:48 am
Checkpoint wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:56 pm
Wootah wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:58 am You wrote: "That is not going to be happening anywhere, any time, following eternal judgment." So my question is following eternal judgement, What happens to sinners in your view?
I already answered that question this way: "[Sinners] will not get to be (doing) anything, other than to be gone for good, gone completely." So my answer is, nothing happens to sinners following the
Judgment. They will have passed away, as they were of the old order.
Excuse me, but might I break in for a moment? :D Yeah, so, understood, Checkpoint.

So given your answer here, how do you reconcile that with the following passages?
  • "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2 ESV)
  • "And (God the Father) has given (Jesus) authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." (John 5:27-29)
  • "And [the wicked] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46 ESV)
Grace and peace to you, my friend.
None of those passages are a problem to me.

Therefore it appears you have a problem in your understanding of my position.

The Lord make his face to dhine upon you, Pinseeker.

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Re: Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

Post #89

Post by PinSeeker »

Checkpoint wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:26 am
PinSeeker wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:48 am
Checkpoint wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:56 pm
Wootah wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:58 am You wrote: "That is not going to be happening anywhere, any time, following eternal judgment." So my question is following eternal judgement, What happens to sinners in your view?
I already answered that question this way: "[Sinners] will not get to be (doing) anything, other than to be gone for good, gone completely." So my answer is, nothing happens to sinners following the
Judgment. They will have passed away, as they were of the old order.
Excuse me, but might I break in for a moment? :D Yeah, so, understood, Checkpoint.

So given your answer here, how do you reconcile that with the following passages?
  • "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2 ESV)
  • "And (God the Father) has given (Jesus) authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." (John 5:27-29)
  • "And [the wicked] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46 ESV)
Grace and peace to you, my friend.
None of those passages are a problem to me.
So you say, yeah. No offense intended, of course, but that "answer" seems an avoidance at best. I asked you to reconcile your statement above ~ that " '[Sinners] will not get to be (doing) anything, other than to be gone for good, gone completely.' So my answer is, nothing happens to sinners following the Judgment. They will have passed away, as they were of the old order." ~ with Daniel 12:2, John 5:27-29, and Matthew 25:46. Because your statement/answer... well, at least seems to be at odds with those Scriptures.
Checkpoint wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:26 am Therefore it appears you have a problem in your understanding of my position.
Well I don't think so, but hey, maybe so, so clarify. Tell me how you reconcile what you said above (" '[Sinners] will not get to be (doing) anything, other than to be gone for good, gone completely.' So my answer is, nothing happens to sinners following the Judgment. They will have passed away, as they were of the old order.") with Daniel 12:2, John 5:27-29, and Matthew 25:46.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Gehenna - just a rubbish tip outside Jerusalem?

Post #90

Post by myth-one.com »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:05 pm The punishment is not "annihilation", the punishment (for the wicked) is unending non-existence. Dying or being killed is NOT the punishment; being dead for all eternity is the punishment.
Romans 6:23 wrote:For the wages of sin is death; . . .
Death: the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.
Lord, help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

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