Is death ... the end?

[Wootah]

There seems to be some disagreement about what happens when we die.

Let's see what the Bible says:

https://www.biblehub.com/genesis/2-17.htm
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Did Adam and Eve die? Yes or No. So does God not know what death is or are you disagreeing with God?

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-1.htm
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

Non Christians are regarded as dead but they all seem to be walking around (They had better get grafted in).

https://biblehub.com/john/11-26.htm
and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 11 deserves special mention. Jesus says to Martha and corrects her when she thinks Lazarus will rise on the last day. Not so Martha Jesus says, I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Jesus says we shall never die and admonishes Mary for thinking Lazarus will only rise on the last day. So either Jesus is a liar or we shall never die.

You know just to continue a theme, where Jesus dies on the cross and the curtain is torn, that is in effect no more separation between man and God. Symbolically when we pass through the curtain of death, we will find that we are more alive than ever, with God forever.

I really think many are preaching death still has a hold on Christians, still has a sting to it.

It's a serious subject. I strongly think people are making Jesus out to be a liar who disagree, I say that to highlight the implications and encourage civility in such a charged topic .

Is death ... the end?

What is death and what does it mean according to the Bible?

[myth-one.com]

What is the point of creation if the ultimate goal is to have it all die out in favor of a 'spiritual' Kingdom of God? ...
Why would God make human beings in God's image, and give us dominion over the earth, only to move history towards the end of the age of man? ...

It all seems like an exercise in futility and a huge waste of time for everyone involved.

Which ultimately leads me to believe that something is seriously wrong with this interpretation of things.

Humans die, while spirits live forever.

But that's the point of resurrection.. For God, all things will become possible. Including things that may currently be impossible such as the restoration of physical life to those long dead.

Do you deny God's power to bring physical life back to physical beings? Was that not always the intention in Genesis 2-3, for Adam and Eve, as physical beings, to eventually enjoy the tree of life?... It was not our physicality that denied us access, but God's concern over granting it to a fallen humankind.

If I compare and contrast our views:

• Aligned: we will all die what you're calling the first death. Death as we commonly know it.

Actually we are aligned except for a rare few Christians which will basically not suffer the first death. Those Christians which are alive at the Second Coming will be changed directly into spirits and meet the others and Jesus in the clouds without "dying":

Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. (I Corinthians 15:51)

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

I suppose one can say that they died in that they no longer have their physical bodies.

Anyways, aside from that small exception, yes we all die the "first death". Aligned!

• Aligned: resurrection will only be for those in the fold. The wicked or ungodly will not be resurrected.

I never said that!! Every human who ever died will be resurrected. Believers will be resurrected to everlasting spiritual life at the Second Coming, and all deceased nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans a thousand years later:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (Revelation 20:5)

We are totally misaligned on this.

• Slightly misaligned: the 'second death' of the ungodly is not so much a death as it is a being passed over for resurrection. i.e., You can't kill what is already dead, unless we're in some kind of zombie apocalypse. I get the sense that your view involves the dead somehow experiencing another actual death.

Absolutely misaligned! The second death is actually the only "real" death. Death is permanent. Everyone will be resurrected from their first death (believers & unbelievers). So in that sense they are only resting -- not dead. Rest In Peace.

Those cast into the lake of fire immediately suffer an everlasting physical death. They will never live again!

• Misaligned: The physical status of the resurrected beings.

Only nonbelievers will be resurrected with physical bodies. Believers will be resurrected with immortal spiritual bodies into the Kingdom of God.

Among other things, how do you explain the ultimate book and chapters of the bible, Revelation 21-22, and the new heaven and earth? The New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to earth... It is described in physical terms: the walls are made of jasper. The city itself of pure gold... This physical city is described as God's 'bride', which all speaks to a union of spiritual and physical. Not an elimination of the physical.

Are you trying to tell me that the city is made of spiritual jasper and gold? Or that purely spiritual beings are living in a physical city for some reason?...

It all harkens back to Genesis 1 (recall our other conversation, and the original meeting and union of God (/spirit) and tehom (/the deep). The interesting thing here is that Revelation explicitly says there will no longer be a sea (verse 21:1). As in, that union has now become complete. The two have become one. Not through eradication of the physical, but through marriage with God.

The age of man will be over after the last living human is either born again as a spirit or dies the second death.

So the things required by living mankind will no longer be required at that time. Born again Christians have become the children of God and will maintain the earth as God commands.
===============================================

On an aside, I really like the way you listed our supposed differences and assigned each a level of alignment.

There is something to be said about being direct on this site!!

Ahhh, a breath of fresh air!

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

Is death ... the end?

What is death and what does it mean according to the Bible?

Yes, death is the end, the cessation of, the life we had until we died.

Yes, our answers to questions about death should always be according to what the Bible says and what it intends us to understand by what is said.

This post will therefore be putting together a number of passages to tell its life and death story.

Genesis 2:
7 Then the Lord God formed a man c from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.

15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Genesis 3:

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

17 To Adam He said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.

18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.

19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

Ecclesiastes 12:
7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Genesis 3:
22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken
24 After He drove the man out, He placed on the east side e of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life
Romans 5:
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

Psalm 49:

7 No one can redeem the life of another
or give to God a ransom for them—

8 the ransom for a life is costly,
no payment is ever enough—

9 so that they should live on forever
and not see decay.

10 For all can see that the wise die,
tht the foolish and the senseless also perish.

Rather a sad story so far for mankind. Death had become an enemy that could not be defeated.

But God saw and took decisive action.

Isaiah 59:
15 The Lord looked and was displeased
that there was no justice.

16 He saw that there was no one,
He was appalled that there was no one to intervene;
so His own arm achieved salvation for Him,
and His own righteousness sustained Him.

17 He put on righteousness as His breastplate,
and the helmet of salvation on His head;
He put on the garments of vengeance
and wrapped Himself in zeal as in a cloak.

Mark 10:
45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2:
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

6 who gave himself as a ransom for all— the testimony that was given at just the right time.

Hebrews 9:
15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Revelation 1:
17 Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Hebrews 2:
9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor, because [u\he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone[/u].

14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—

15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

26 But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 Just as people are appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment,

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Acts 17:
. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now He commands all people everywhere to repent.

31 For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.

Romans 6:
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:
6 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

2 Peter 3:
. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.

7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

So, all those verses tell important aspects of the greatest true story ever told.

Bad news for many, but such good news for an uncounted multitude.























.

[JehovahsWitness]

The bible speaks of both physical literal death and uses death as a metaphor for being allienated from God (spiritual death). I presume the OP is speaking about literal physical death (ie the cessation of all bodily functions).


Biblically literal death is indeed the end of a persons existence. A person doesnt survive his death to go on existing in another form elsewhere, they quite simply cease to exist anywhere (whether that be in the physicql or the spiritual realm.

Is death the end of any hope to live again? Certainly not!

[Checkpoint]

There seems to be some disagreement about what happens when we die.

Let's see what the Bible says:

https://www.biblehub.com/genesis/2-17.htm
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Did Adam and Eve die? Yes or No.

Yes, they did die. That death, however, was a double-whammy.

They died inwardly, or spiritually, on the day they ate what God had commanded them not to eat.

They later died outwardly, or physically, less than 1000 years later. This death came on the same day as God sees time(2 Peter 3:8).

So does God not know what death is or are you disagreeing with God?

God knows far more than we do about death and time; He created all things. I am not disagreeing with God.

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-1.htm
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

Non Christians are regarded as dead but they all seem to be walking around (They had better get grafted in)

That's about right Wootah; sort of!

https://biblehub.com/john/11-26.htm
and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

[

John 11 deserves special mention. Jesus says to Martha and corrects her when she thinks Lazarus will rise on the last day. Not so Martha Jesus says,

I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Jesus says we shall never die and admonishes Mary for thinking Lazarus will only rise on the last day. So either Jesus is a liar or we shall never die.

Yes, John 11 deserves special mention.

A very interesting exchange. But not for the reasons you gave.

{Not so, Martha", Jesus says"? Nope, he did not say "Not so, Martha". He was not correcting her for saying Lazarus will rise on the last day.

But he did have more to tell her, so much more, when he said, "I am the resurrection and the life".

But he did not say, "shall never die", even though it is in most translations of verse 26.

What he did say is clearly seen in the bible-hub Interlinear Greek:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/11-26.htm

His actual words were these, in this order: "never not shall die to the age(forever)".

Jesus was not a liar.

You know just to continue a theme, where Jesus dies on the cross and the curtain is torn, that is in effect no more separation between man and God. Symbolically when we pass through the curtain of death, we will find that we are more alive than ever, with God forever.

Not quite; not yet.

For we walk by faith, not by sight.

We will pass through the curtain of death and come forth in resurrection to life with God forever. Romans 8: 22-25.

I really think many are preaching death still has a hold on Christians, still has a sting to it.

Perhaps this may be a word in season for us all.

2 Timothy 1:

9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,
10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

[onewithhim]

There seems to be some disagreement about what happens when we die.

Let's see what the Bible says:

https://www.biblehub.com/genesis/2-17.htm
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Did Adam and Eve die? Yes or No. So does God not know what death is or are you disagreeing with God?

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-1.htm
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

Non Christians are regarded as dead but they all seem to be walking around (They had better get grafted in).

https://biblehub.com/john/11-26.htm
and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 11 deserves special mention. Jesus says to Martha and corrects her when she thinks Lazarus will rise on the last day. Not so Martha Jesus says, I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Jesus says we shall never die and admonishes Mary for thinking Lazarus will only rise on the last day. So either Jesus is a liar or we shall never die.

You know just to continue a theme, where Jesus dies on the cross and the curtain is torn, that is in effect no more separation between man and God. Symbolically when we pass through the curtain of death, we will find that we are more alive than ever, with God forever.

I really think many are preaching death still has a hold on Christians, still has a sting to it.

It's a serious subject. I strongly think people are making Jesus out to be a liar who disagree, I say that to highlight the implications and encourage civility in such a charged topic .

Is death ... the end?

What is death and what does it mean according to the Bible?

Yes, Adam and Eve died.

Non-believers are spiritually dead.

When Jesus said "anyone who is living and believes in me shall never die" he was referring to the last days and Armageddon. Whoever is alive when Armageddon happens will never die. They will just walk right into the new system of things. We are the first generation, may I say, that has the opportunity to never die. These are special times.

Jesus does not correct Martha for thinking that Lazarus will be raised on the last day. That is very true, even though he was also raised by Jesus back then......to prove that God had really sent him. (John 11:41,42) Lazarus and everybody else will be raised on the last day.

And death is not the end. How can you wonder that when Jesus said he would resurrect people, back to the earth, "in the last day"? People have the hope of being raised again and of living in Paradise on Earth forever. After death they just "sleep" for awhile. (John 11:11-14) Until the last day. See John 5:28; John 6:40 & 44.

[onewithhim]

What is the point of creation if the ultimate goal is to have it all die out in favor of a 'spiritual' Kingdom of God? ...
Why would God make human beings in God's image, and give us dominion over the earth, only to move history towards the end of the age of man? ...

It all seems like an exercise in futility and a huge waste of time for everyone involved.

Which ultimately leads me to believe that something is seriously wrong with this interpretation of things.

Humans die, while spirits live forever.

Humans were created to live forever--in physical bodies. We are not spirits in a physical body. God's original purpose was for humans to live on the earth and take care of it, and never die. This is still God's purpose. He hasn't changed his mind.

Spirits do not live forever. Many spirits will die at the end of Christ's Millennial Reign. The Lake of Fire is symbolic for complete obliteration, and that is where Satan and his minions and everyone who wants to support him will go. They will be dead (without life) forever.

The Scripture says that Jesus ALONE had immortality. (I Timothy 6:16) Then later, those who remained faithful and went to heaven to rule with him would become immortal. But immortality does not belong to the angels, and certainly not the demons.

[myth-one.com]

Humans were created to live forever--in physical bodies. We are not spirits in a physical body. God's original purpose was for humans to live on the earth and take care of it, and never die. This is still God's purpose. He hasn't changed his mind.

No, God's original purpose was for immortal angels to live on the earth and take care of it. But some of them under the leadership of Satan rebelled against God.

Man is Plan B.

Spirits do not live forever.

Speaking of those who shall inherit the Kingdom of God in the world to come, Jesus states:

Neither can they die any more, for they are equal unto the angels... (Luke 20:36)

If believers shall be equal unto the angels in that they will live forever, then spiritual bodied angels live forever according to Jesus.

God is a Spirit, and He lives forever. What other kind of spiritual beings are there?

The Lake of Fire is symbolic for complete obliteration, and that is where Satan and his minions and everyone who wants to support him will go. They will be dead (without life) forever.

The devil won't be:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Scripture says that Jesus ALONE had immortality. (I Timothy 6:16).

Actually, Jesus is the only heir to everlasting life under the Old Testament Covenant. The Wages of sin is death, He never sinned, thus He is an heir to everlasting life.

But Jesus will not accept His justly earned inheritance, but offer it as a free gift to those humans who accept Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant.

So that salvation becomes the gift of God through His Son Jesus Christ.

Timothy correctly states that among all mankind, Jesus is the only one who possesses immortality as an inheritance under the Old Testament Covenant when he writes regarding Jesus:

"Who only hath immortality"

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #16]

The Scripture says that Jesus ALONE had immortality. (I Timothy 6:16)

No, not so, onewithhim.

Read again what Paul wrote. This time a little more carefully, and in its context.

Jehovah alone has no beginning and no ending.

Jehovah alone dwells in unapproachable light, and has thus not been seen nor can be seen, in human earthly history.

1 Timothy 6:
14 Keep this commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 which the blessed and only Sovereign One—the King of kings and Lord of lords—will bring about in His own time.
16 He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

[2ndpillar2]

There seems to be some disagreement about what happens when we die.

Let's see what the Bible says:

https://www.biblehub.com/genesis/2-17.htm
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Did Adam and Eve die? Yes or No. So does God not know what death is or are you disagreeing with God?

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-1.htm
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

Non Christians are regarded as dead but they all seem to be walking around (They had better get grafted in).

https://biblehub.com/john/11-26.htm
and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 11 deserves special mention. Jesus says to Martha and corrects her when she thinks Lazarus will rise on the last day. Not so Martha Jesus says, I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Jesus says we shall never die and admonishes Mary for thinking Lazarus will only rise on the last day. So either Jesus is a liar or we shall never die.

You know just to continue a theme, where Jesus dies on the cross and the curtain is torn, that is in effect no more separation between man and God. Symbolically when we pass through the curtain of death, we will find that we are more alive than ever, with God forever.

I really think many are preaching death still has a hold on Christians, still has a sting to it.

It's a serious subject. I strongly think people are making Jesus out to be a liar who disagree, I say that to highlight the implications and encourage civility in such a charged topic .

Is death ... the end?

What is death and what does it mean according to the Bible?

Adam and Eve died in the day they ate of the tree of life, in that one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as one day. (Psalms 90:4)

Non "Christians" would be considered non "Christians". The walking dead, would be considered those who had not entered into life, which are those who do not keep the commandments (Matthew 19:16).

John 11:25, is a better description than John 11:26. "he who believes in me shall live even if he dies". Those who die are in the grave, and those who do not receive the mark of the beast/Caesar, will will come to life to rule during the millennium, which would preclude the "Christians", who have the mark of the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine, the establisher of the central dogma of the universal "Christian" church.

The separation between man and God remains in that anyone who sins is separated from God. You either "enter into life" now or you will remain asleep through the millennium, and be raised later for the great white throne judgment, whereas you will be judged for your deeds (Revelation 20:12), not based on some false beliefs you may hold.

[William]

The subject of death has always intrigued humans. This is understandable as the process of human existence involves the creation of personalities, which altogether are involved in a story called 'Reality.'

As the personalities interact and grow together, characters develop, and give substance to the story unfolding.

In the course of the story unfolding, the Personalities which were created through the human experience often place something of themselves into their offspring, which allows for the personality to continue on in the story-line as the newer individual takes on the characteristics of the older personality the older individual - being influential - placed into the psyche of the newer.

This is why Personalities are able to be grouped.

Understood this way, we can see the idea that Personalities can survive death by being passed along to next generations and use of the physical human form for this purpose is how this is achieved.

But what of the individual who experiences the one life and takes on personality as a means of being able to identify as 'something' other than just being the human animal, and passes on the personality trait, like a runner passes the baton to the next runner in line?

And what of the biblical versions which attempt to answer the question regarding death? Are these talking about the death of certain personalities which are of no practical use in relation to the supposed next-level events which altogether make up the various beliefs which personalities subscribe to?

Are personalities the things being 'saved' - certain personality types which are accepted while those which are not, are 'deleted'?