Christendom inconsistent beliefs #4: Christ, flesh and bones in heaven?

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Eloi
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Christendom inconsistent beliefs #4: Christ, flesh and bones in heaven?

Post #1

Post by Eloi »

Paul said:

1 Cor. 15:50 But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Jesus is in God's kingdom right now. That region is described in this passage of the Bible:

Heb. 12:18 For you have not approached something that can be felt and that has been set aflame with fire, and a dark cloud and thick darkness and a storm, 19 and the blast of a trumpet and the voice speaking words, which on hearing, the people begged that nothing further should be spoken to them. 20 For they could not bear the command: “If even a beast touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” 21 Also, the display was so terrifying that Moses said: “I am afraid and trembling.” 22 But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels 23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect, 24 and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s blood.

It is a region where only spirit beings can live, not physical beings of flesh and bones. It is obvious, since beings of flesh and bones are directly connected with physical needs that can only be satisfied in the physical environment where we were placed when we were created. There are at least five passages in the Scriptures which teach us that Jesus is in a spirit body right now in heaven:

1 Tim. 3:16 Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in the world, was received up in glory.’

Heb. 9:14 how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works so that we may render sacred service to the living God?

1 Cor. 15:44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, what is spiritual is not first. What is physical is first, and afterward what is spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust; and like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we will bear also the image of the heavenly one.

2 Cor. 5:16 So from now on we know no man from a fleshly viewpoint. Even if we once knew Christ according to the flesh, we certainly no longer know him in that way.

1 Pet. 3:18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit ...

Why do theologians and religious leaders of Christendom continue to falsely teach their apprentices that Jesus lives in heaven with a body of flesh and bones? ... maybe a two meters tall body? Has his body gases inside? Does it need liquid like humans on earth to maintain his internal physical composition?

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Re: Christendom inconsistent beliefs #4: Christ, flesh and bones in heaven?

Post #91

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Onewithhim,

You claim that neither Christ or God his Father have a body of flesh and bone.

It appears that you have chosen to deny the following scriptures.

Matthew 28:
9
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

(Are you claiming that his chosen apostles who held the risen Lord by the feet and worshipped him are worshipping a false god?)

10
Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.


Luke 24:
37
But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38
And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40
And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41
And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42
And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43
And he took it, and did eat before them.


( In the above the matter was clearly settled when Christ testified "]Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have

(Inasmuch as Christ has a body of flesh and bones as he so verily testifies and is the first fruits of the resurrection, then obviously all who are resurrected will also have a resurrected body of flesh and bones!)

KJV 20:
16
Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

My response: We should also remember that ALL POWER WAS GIVEN HIM ON EARTH AND IN HEAVEN. Having said that it is obvious that HE WAS GOD THE SON. For all judgment was given unto him. I would ask the question “ are men to be judged by GOD or Man?”

KJV John 21:
25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

I submit that the testimony of Jesus the Christ regarding his resurrected body of "flesh and bones" is a thousand time superior to your man made doctrine.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: Christendom inconsistent beliefs #4: Christ, flesh and bones in heaven?

Post #92

Post by Eloi »

Paul said that "flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom" (1 Cor. 15:50).

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Re: Christendom inconsistent beliefs #4: Christ, flesh and bones in heaven?

Post #93

Post by Eloi »

Comparing the "natural" world, the physical world we live inside, with that one where spirits live, Paul said:

Heb. 12:18 For you have not approached something that can be felt and that has been set aflame with fire, and a dark cloud and thick darkness and a storm, 19 and the blast of a trumpet and the voice speaking words, which on hearing, the people begged that nothing further should be spoken to them. 20 For they could not bear the command: “If even a beast touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” 21 Also, the display was so terrifying that Moses said: “I am afraid and trembling.” 22 But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels 23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect, 24 and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s blood.

When human and other living beings were created on earth from material that was on the ground, there were already living beings created from a different substance, and that were superior to living beings created to live in the terrestrial context.

Job 38:4 Where were you when I founded the earth?
Tell me, if you think you understand.
 5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
 6 Into what were its pedestals sunk,
Or who laid its cornerstone,
 7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?

Those of us who believe in the existence of spirits know perfectly well that they are invisible to our eyes precisely because the material of which they are composed is not the same material of which terrestrial living beings are composed. We know that they can move in outer space unlike us, who were created to live on this planet.

If those spirits were created before the earth, it is obvious that they were not created from soil material, but from another type. Paul does not say what kind of material (invisible to our eyes) they were created from, but in this passage he explains that the material they are made of, even if it does not have the same characteristics as the physical material we know, is heavenly.

1 Cor. 15:45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, what is spiritual is not first. What is physical is first, and afterward what is spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust; and like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we will bear also the image of the heavenly one.

Jesus was the first human being who, after having existed as a spirit, was born as a human being of material like Adam's, since he was born as a descendant of humans in the flesh and in the way that a perfect son could have been born of Eve and Adam if they had not sin, and ALSO died as a human being to be resurrected as a spiritual being again and thus return to that realm of spirits where beings of terrestrial material "do not fit".

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