A Traditional Misread? #1: John 14:2.

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A Traditional Misread? #1: John 14:2.

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


This is such a well-known and much loved verse spoken by Jesus.

So, I ask you, tell us, in your own words, what it has conveyed to you up to now.

You may also wish to answer one or more of these questions:


1. What do you think he refers to when he mentions "my Father's house"?

2. Is the word "mansions" an accurate translation?

3. What place is he preparing, and what is he doing to prepare it for us?

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Re: A Traditional Misread? #1: John 14:2.

Post #11

Post by Checkpoint »

Miles wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:08 am
Checkpoint wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:08 pm
Miles wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:20 am
Checkpoint wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:58 pm [Replying to Miles in post #2]
What is it you'd like to say?
It appears I did at that time. But whatever it was I cannot recall, so tomorrow is no longer about to arrive.

So I'll just say to you now, do you have any response to what I did write in post #6?
Nah. Interesting, but not enough to get involved in.
What, then, would be enough?



.

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Re: A Traditional Misread? #1: John 14:2.

Post #12

Post by onewithhim »

Checkpoint wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:58 pm [Replying to Miles in post #2]
1. What do you think he refers to when he mentions "my Father's house"?
In as much as

Isaiah 66:1 says:
"
Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; what is the house that you would build for me, and what is the place of my rest?
And Matthew 6:9 says
Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.
I'm going to say "Heaven." Am I right or am I right? And what do I get if I am?
Haha, what indeed!

Well, you are right, but yet only about half right.

What you get is ... some teaching, and some encouragement.

Adding to, not subtracting from, your own excellent start on this theme and thread.

That was a superb Scripture choice, Isaiah 66:1.

When Jesus said "my Father's house" he meant the temple here on earth, in Jerusalem.

But when he used it in John 14:2 he was telling something new. Effectively, it was in answer to God's questions to Solomon, "what is the house that you would build for Me, and what is the place of My rest?"

Do you know how Jesus has been answering His Father's two questions?

Here are two clues.

The first is what God says in Isaiah 57.15:

For thus said the high and exalted One, Inhabiting eternity, and holy is His name:
'In the high and holy place I dwell, And with the bruised and humble of spirit, To revive the spirit of the humble, And to revive the heart of bruised ones.'

The second clue is part of the passage Jesus spoke that you left out of your other quote from Matthew 6, but should have included. That is:
10 Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Have I lost you completely, or can you see where this might be going?

ONEWITHHIM REPLIES:

God's Kingdom is based in heaven. That is where the TRUE temple is. (Hebrews 8:1,2) The one on Earth was just a shadow of the reality. That is where Jesus and his co-rulers will live and execute their rulership.

Jesus taught us to pray for the Kingdom to "come" so that God's will will be done here on Earth as it is in heaven. How does it "come?" By taking complete control of the governmental arrangement on the earth by power from the base in heaven, just as Jehovah has ruled the universe from time immemorial, from heaven. He has merely given Satan a few thousand years to prove his (the Devil's) point that he can rule the earth better than Jehovah. Soon it will go back to the way it was before Adam sinned, and God "will be all things to everyone" (I Corinthians 15:24-28). Jehovah and Jesus don't need to actually live on the earth to rule over it. They can rule from heaven, as Jesus has had the privilege of doing beginning in 1914, when the times of the nations was fulfilled (Luke 21:24). He is now gearing up to bring a complete end to mankind's own governments, as well as guiding his people now to witness to mankind of the coming end to all evil and suffering. He does this from heaven. (Matthew 28:20) He is "with" us even now.

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Re: A Traditional Misread? #1: John 14:2.

Post #13

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #12]

ONEWITHHIM REPLIES:

God's Kingdom is based in heaven. That is where the TRUE temple is. (Hebrews 8:1,2) The one on Earth was just a shadow of the reality. That is where Jesus and his co-rulers will live and execute their rulership.

Jesus taught us to pray for the Kingdom to "come" so that God's will will be done here on Earth as it is in heaven. How does it "come?" By taking complete control of the governmental arrangement on the earth by power from the base in heaven, just as Jehovah has ruled the universe from time immemorial, from heaven. He has merely given Satan a few thousand years to prove his (the Devil's) point that he can rule the earth better than Jehovah. Soon it will go back to the way it was before Adam sinned, and God "will be all things to everyone" (I Corinthians 15:24-28). Jehovah and Jesus don't need to actually live on the earth to rule over it. They can rule from heaven, as Jesus has had the privilege of doing beginning in 1914, when the times of the nations was fulfilled (Luke 21:24). He is now gearing up to bring a complete end to mankind's own governments, as well as guiding his people now to witness to mankind of the coming end to all evil and suffering. He does this from heaven. (Matthew 28:20) He is "with" us even now.[/quote]


John 14:2 is not about the kingdom of God.


It is not about "where Jesus and his co-rulers will live and execute their rulership."

John 14:2 is about:

1. "My Father's House". That is, the Temple of God, in some form.

The obvious question this evokes is, What and where is The Temple of God today?

2. This temple has "many "mansions", or dwelling places".

In this respect, we need to ask and answer, Who is it who does the dwelling in the Temple?

3. Jesus continues, "I go to prepare a place for you".

Well, where is he going? What place is he preparing? What does he do in this "preparing"?

That's just for starters.

One more thing.

Verse 2 is only one verse, which is therefore taken out of its context.

Its immediate context is John 14, which is not to be ignored or changed in any way.

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Re: A Traditional Misread? #1: John 14:2.

Post #14

Post by onewithhim »

Checkpoint wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:10 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #12]

ONEWITHHIM REPLIES:

God's Kingdom is based in heaven. That is where the TRUE temple is. (Hebrews 8:1,2) The one on Earth was just a shadow of the reality. That is where Jesus and his co-rulers will live and execute their rulership.

Jesus taught us to pray for the Kingdom to "come" so that God's will will be done here on Earth as it is in heaven. How does it "come?" By taking complete control of the governmental arrangement on the earth by power from the base in heaven, just as Jehovah has ruled the universe from time immemorial, from heaven. He has merely given Satan a few thousand years to prove his (the Devil's) point that he can rule the earth better than Jehovah. Soon it will go back to the way it was before Adam sinned, and God "will be all things to everyone" (I Corinthians 15:24-28). Jehovah and Jesus don't need to actually live on the earth to rule over it. They can rule from heaven, as Jesus has had the privilege of doing beginning in 1914, when the times of the nations was fulfilled (Luke 21:24). He is now gearing up to bring a complete end to mankind's own governments, as well as guiding his people now to witness to mankind of the coming end to all evil and suffering. He does this from heaven. (Matthew 28:20) He is "with" us even now.

John 14:2 is not about the kingdom of God.


It is not about "where Jesus and his co-rulers will live and execute their rulership."

John 14:2 is about:

1. "My Father's House". That is, the Temple of God, in some form.

The obvious question this evokes is, What and where is The Temple of God today?
[/quote]

ONEWITHHIM RESPONDS:

I have answered that, as have other JWs here. It is, as Hebrews tells us, in heaven. It is the REAL temple, not made with human hands.

"Now this is the main point of what we are saying: We have such a high priest as this, and he [Christ] has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister of the holy place and the true tabernacle [temple], which Jehovah set up, and not man." (Hebrews 8:1,2)

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Re: A Traditional Misread? #1: John 14:2.

Post #15

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #14]
John 14:2 is about:

1. "My Father's House". That is, the Temple of God, in some form.

The obvious question this evokes is, What and where is The Temple of God today?
ONEWITHHIM RESPONDS:

I have answered that, as have other JWs here. It is, as Hebrews tells us, in heaven. It is the REAL temple, not made with human hands.

"Now this is the main point of what we are saying: We have such a high priest as this, and he [Christ] has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister of the holy place and the true tabernacle [temple], which Jehovah set up, and not man." (Hebrews 8:1,2)
The Father's House is not God's dwelling place in heaven, but His dwelling place on earth where His people are.

But yes, it is the REAL temple, not made with human hands. Not made with dead physical stones, but with living spiritual stones(1 Peter 2:4-6).

God's people are the temple of God on earth, and comprise the many dwelling places Jesus refers to in verse 2.
1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

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