What Jesus Said

Exploring the details of Christianity

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William
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What Jesus Said

Post #1

Post by William »

Rule of thumb re scriptural statements about biblical Jesus.

IF;
any such statement contradicts or is otherwise inconsistent with what biblical Jesus stated about himself,
THEN;
regardless that it is 'in the bible', biblical Jesus' statements about himself, take precedence over any other biblical statements about him.


Rule of Thumb = a broadly accurate guide or principle, based on practice rather than theory.

Take Precedence = to be more important (than something else)

Q: Is there any honest reason why Christians and others should not apply this rule of thumb in relation to statements biblical Jesus makes about himself when other biblical statements about Jesus contradict or are otherwise inconsistent with those statements biblical Jesus makes about himself?

[iow]
Are there any honest reasons why Christians [and others] should not apply this rule of thumb in relation to things said in the bible about biblical Jesus, whenever there are contradictions and inconsistencies.

[Examples of such contradictions and inconsistencies will no doubt follow as the thread proceeds. The focus of the thread is specific to what biblical Jesus states about himself and the above rule of thumb.]

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tam
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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #101

Post by tam »

Peace to you,

[Replying to William in post #100]

Inconsistent:

- If a reason, idea, opinion, etc. is inconsistent, different parts of it do not agree, or it does not agree with something else:
These findings are inconsistent with those of previous studies.

- (of an argument or opinion) containing elements that are opposed and do not match, so that it is difficult to imagine how both can be true:


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... consistent


So what are the opposing elements here? What did Christ say about Himself that opposes or disagrees with Him being the Word of God?

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William
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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #102

Post by William »

[Replying to tam in post #101]
So what are the opposing elements here? What did Christ say about Himself that opposes or disagrees with Him being the Word of God?
The opposing elements number equally to the supporting elements. There are no opposing or supporting elements.

That is why the question was asked;

Q: What makes any message "The Word of God?" when it has never been established what exactly constitutes a "Word of God", anyway?

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tam
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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #103

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
William wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:24 pm [Replying to tam in post #101]
So what are the opposing elements here? What did Christ say about Himself that opposes or disagrees with Him being the Word of God?
The opposing elements number equally to the supporting elements. There are no opposing or supporting elements.
If there are no opposing elements then it is not inconsistent with anything Christ said about Himself. Therefore, it does not violate the rule of thumb that you created in the OP.

You can of course refuse to accept it, or reserve judgment on the matter, until you have more evidence. Or until you ask and receive the truth of the matter from Christ Himself.


(Though Christ did say, "Your Word is Truth"... and... "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life", which is pretty consistent with the statement from the apostle who wrote "John", that Christ is the Word of God, as well as from the disciple John of Patmos who received and wrote Revelation, where Christ is referred to as the Word of God.)


Peace again.

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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #104

Post by William »

[Replying to tam in post #103]
If there are no opposing elements then it is not inconsistent with anything Christ said about Himself.
Nor is the claim by Christians that BJ is 'The Word of God' consistent with anything BJ is said to have said of himself.

That was my point.
(Though Christ did say, "Your Word is Truth"... and... "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life", which is pretty consistent with the statement from the apostle who wrote "John", that Christ is the Word of God, as well as from the disciple John of Patmos who received and wrote Revelation, where Christ is referred to as the Word of God.)
That is why the question was asked;

Q: What makes any message "The Word of God?" when it has never been established what exactly constitutes a "Word of God", anyway?

►We have a claim by some authors that Jesus made claims.
►We have no such claim spoken by Jesus, that he was "The Word of God"
►The claim we do have "Your Word is Truth" does not say what that word is, in relation to the claim that BJ is 'The Word of God". Rather it say plainly that whatever The Father speaks, is counted as "The Word of God."
►The claim by John of Patmos re Revelations is unsupported as it comes through an apparent vision which nobody else even witnessed and since there is no verified claim from BJ supporting this claim, it has to be put to one side.
►The claim "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" supports only that anyone claiming to speak on behalf of The Father can be said to be acting on behalf of what The Father spoke [The Word] but they who convey such message are not themselves, The Word of God on account of that.

Clearly BJ tells us that he speaks what his Father told him to say. Therefore Jesus is one who claims [through those authors] that he spoke The Word of God, not that he was The Word of God, as many Christians claim through obviously false interpretation of what is actually written.

Just as with the bible. Just because there are messages claimed to come from "God" does not mean that the bible is therefore "The Word of God."
You can of course refuse to accept it, or reserve judgment on the matter, until you have more evidence.
There is no need to accept the claim Christians make that BJ is 'The Word of God' as clearly there is no supporting statement from BJ in the bible regarding that.
Or until you ask and receive the truth of the matter from Christ Himself.
I get my instruction from The Father regarding the claim, and am informed that neither he nor Christ refer to BJ or the bible as "The Word of God", as that is purely a Christian invention/claim.

The evidence [and lack of evidence] supports the instruction is correct.

The Father tells me that whatever is spoken by The Father is The Word of God.

That makes sense to me. I will listen to The Father and accept that judgement on the matter.

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