What Jesus Said

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William
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What Jesus Said

Post #1

Post by William »

Rule of thumb re scriptural statements about biblical Jesus.

IF;
any such statement contradicts or is otherwise inconsistent with what biblical Jesus stated about himself,
THEN;
regardless that it is 'in the bible', biblical Jesus' statements about himself, take precedence over any other biblical statements about him.


Rule of Thumb = a broadly accurate guide or principle, based on practice rather than theory.

Take Precedence = to be more important (than something else)

Q: Is there any honest reason why Christians and others should not apply this rule of thumb in relation to statements biblical Jesus makes about himself when other biblical statements about Jesus contradict or are otherwise inconsistent with those statements biblical Jesus makes about himself?

[iow]
Are there any honest reasons why Christians [and others] should not apply this rule of thumb in relation to things said in the bible about biblical Jesus, whenever there are contradictions and inconsistencies.

[Examples of such contradictions and inconsistencies will no doubt follow as the thread proceeds. The focus of the thread is specific to what biblical Jesus states about himself and the above rule of thumb.]

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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #51

Post by onewithhim »

How do you know that Jesus wasn’t alluding to his Father’s voice at John 17:17? That’s certainly just your opinion.

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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #52

Post by William »

like Jesus said to the Father, "Your Word is truth." (John 17:17) The Scriptures Jesus quoted were all the Father's voice.
Jesus was not referring to scripture when he made that remark.
How do you know that Jesus wasn’t alluding to his Father’s voice at John 17:17? That’s certainly just your opinion.
I know because whenever Jesus Spoke of The Fathers Voice the context was always to do with with that Voice being The Word.

All the priesthoods eventually focus attentions upon the written word which the priesthood adhered to. Scripture has never been The Fathers Voice, but only a reasonably poor telling of it which should be taken with a grain of salt and never confused with The Father Voice, which is heard by the individual having relationship with The Father, not with a set of story-books which have slipped through the hands of - quite probably - the voice of the priesthood, which is given to the public as "The Father's Word."

Tread carefully in that minefield.

Which is why I prefer to narrow The Path when it comes to scripture claimed to be inspired, by focusing upon What Jesus Said as the scripture above all scripture.

After all, there is a Satanic Murderer on the loose with fingers in every pie, right?

And in that idea, we see another case of something which is not subject to Christ. The Father being one, and Satan being the other.

Thus, the reason to tread carefully...and do not be deceived into thinking Jesus was referring to scripture when he said the words "thy word is truth".

The clue for us-kind is in the words "Sanctify them through thy truth" and in whom we are picking up our information from, rather than in what we are picking up our information from.

Inspiration comes from The Whom rather than the What, and there certainly are times when one can The Father Voice in bits and pieces of scripture...but lets not place the cart before the horse by assuming scripture is The Father's Word, just because some of the bits resonate at the correct frequency.

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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #53

Post by onewithhim »

William wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:32 pm
like Jesus said to the Father, "Your Word is truth." (John 17:17) The Scriptures Jesus quoted were all the Father's voice.
Jesus was not referring to scripture when he made that remark.
How do you know that Jesus wasn’t alluding to his Father’s voice at John 17:17? That’s certainly just your opinion.
I know because whenever Jesus Spoke of The Fathers Voice the context was always to do with with that Voice being The Word.
I think we're pretty safe in our thinking that the Father's Word is all the Scripture that was available to Jesus back then. He quoted from it constantly.

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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #54

Post by William »

onewithhim wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:12 pm
William wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:32 pm
like Jesus said to the Father, "Your Word is truth." (John 17:17) The Scriptures Jesus quoted were all the Father's voice.
Jesus was not referring to scripture when he made that remark.
How do you know that Jesus wasn’t alluding to his Father’s voice at John 17:17? That’s certainly just your opinion.
I know because whenever Jesus Spoke of The Fathers Voice the context was always to do with with that Voice being The Word.
I think we're pretty safe in our thinking that the Father's Word is all the Scripture that was available to Jesus back then. He quoted from it constantly.
I think this is somewhat true re the need for many folk to have a 'safe place' in which they can barricade themselves behind.

I have serious doubts that Jesus quoted the Tanakh constantly. Certainly he never quoted from the NT.

Given the stories re biblical Jesus, he quoted The Father constantly - far in excess of quoting Jewish scripture.

Indeed, it is apparent in his words that Jesus responded to the occasions as they manifested, directly, and Christianity has made that into a general rule.

To go back to the earlier example mentioned, Jesus reflected the attitude the religious leadership projected at him. He wasn't saying that there was no appearance of The Father in said scripture, but that the words had been distorted through lies about The Father, in the imagery that the Tanakh often enough presented, and how the Priesthood was the reason for that happening.

When a member of the Jehovah's Witness Organization knocks at my door, I know that they are not really witnesses of the God YHWH, but rather they are witnesses to their organizations take on biblical things - to the bible they tote.

As Jesus said;

"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Christianity [JWO too] serves the bible, rather than the God of the bible.

Because therein, their hearts are safe. as surely as their minds are owned.

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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #55

Post by onewithhim »

William wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:32 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:12 pm
William wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:32 pm
like Jesus said to the Father, "Your Word is truth." (John 17:17) The Scriptures Jesus quoted were all the Father's voice.
Jesus was not referring to scripture when he made that remark.
How do you know that Jesus wasn’t alluding to his Father’s voice at John 17:17? That’s certainly just your opinion.
I know because whenever Jesus Spoke of The Fathers Voice the context was always to do with with that Voice being The Word.
I think we're pretty safe in our thinking that the Father's Word is all the Scripture that was available to Jesus back then. He quoted from it constantly.
I think this is somewhat true re the need for many folk to have a 'safe place' in which they can barricade themselves behind.

I have serious doubts that Jesus quoted the Tanakh constantly. Certainly he never quoted from the NT.

Given the stories re biblical Jesus, he quoted The Father constantly - far in excess of quoting Jewish scripture.

Indeed, it is apparent in his words that Jesus responded to the occasions as they manifested, directly, and Christianity has made that into a general rule.

To go back to the earlier example mentioned, Jesus reflected the attitude the religious leadership projected at him. He wasn't saying that there was no appearance of The Father in said scripture, but that the words had been distorted through lies about The Father, in the imagery that the Tanakh often enough presented, and how the Priesthood was the reason for that happening.

When a member of the Jehovah's Witness Organization knocks at my door, I know that they are not really witnesses of the God YHWH, but rather they are witnesses to their organizations take on biblical things - to the bible they tote.

As Jesus said;

"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Christianity [JWO too] serves the bible, rather than the God of the bible.

Because therein, their hearts are safe. as surely as their minds are owned.
Jesus did indeed quote the Hebrew Scriptures constantly. He said many times---"It is written..." so on and so forth. You might brush up on your reading.

Your idea that we JWs witness for our organization and not Jehovah is not fair. You take a swipe at "the Bible they tote." We toted solely the King James Version for almost a hundred years before we had the New World Translation, and we witnessed for Jehovah with that. We are the only religion in the world that is witnessing for Jehovah. If you don't believe that, just mention "Jehovah" to anyone and they immediately think of Jehovah's Witnesses. No one else.

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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #56

Post by William »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #55]
Jesus did indeed quote the Hebrew Scriptures constantly. He said many times---"It is written..." so on and so forth.
Unsupported statements are of no value in a debate setting. How many times did Jesus quote Hebrew script, that we can agree he did so 'constantly'?

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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #57

Post by William »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #55]
just mention "Jehovah" to anyone and they immediately think of Jehovah's Witnesses. No one else.
So what that they immediately think of the JWO?

That in itself only shows that my statement "When a member of the Jehovah's Witness Organization knocks at my door, I know that they are not really witnesses of the God YHWH, but rather they are witnesses to their organizations take on biblical things - to the bible they tote." is true enough.

Add to that, these scriptural gems;

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

“But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”

The LORD doth hate a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you.

And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.


The competition is fierce.

One can easily enough ascertain that the boasts of those who knock at ones door proclaiming to be ambassadors of The Father, are not simply to be taken at their word...

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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #58

Post by Difflugia »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:31 amWe are the only religion in the world that is witnessing for Jehovah. If you don't believe that, just mention "Jehovah" to anyone and they immediately think of Jehovah's Witnesses. No one else.
I'd argue that's because "Jehovah" is anachronistic and a bit quaint. "Yahweh" is a far more common transliteration of the tetragrammaton and I'd wager that relatively few people think of Jehovah's Witnesses when that name is mentioned. "Jehovah" is most often associated with Jehovah's Witnesses for the same reason that Peking is a style of roasted duck and Ceylon is a kind of tea.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #59

Post by otseng »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:31 amYou might brush up on your reading. 📖
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Re: What Jesus Said

Post #60

Post by William »

Difflugia wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:01 pm
onewithhim wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:31 amWe are the only religion in the world that is witnessing for Jehovah. If you don't believe that, just mention "Jehovah" to anyone and they immediately think of Jehovah's Witnesses. No one else.
I'd argue that's because "Jehovah" is anachronistic and a bit quaint. "Yahweh" is a far more common transliteration of the tetragrammaton and I'd wager that relatively few people think of Jehovah's Witnesses when that name is mentioned. "Jehovah" is most often associated with Jehovah's Witnesses for the same reason that Peking is a style of roasted duck and Ceylon is a kind of tea.
Correct observation Difflugia.

It is also pertinent that YHWH as a powerful god, became obsolete when the Romans destroyed the temple which was made in YHWHs honor...such are the rules of the God-Game.

That once fierce and fearful mighty being is a far-cry from the door-tapping reps the JWOrg put out and about into the world.

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