Religious Tolerance

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Miles
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Religious Tolerance

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.

Religious tolerance as I see it amounts to allowing people to worship according to the tenets and practices of whatever religion they choose, and without interference. A "Live and Let Live" philosophy as it were. Or, as The Concise Oxford Dictionary (1960) defines religious tolerance:
  • "recognition of right of private judgment in religious matters,
  • liberty to uphold one's religious opinions and forms of worship, or
  • to enjoy all social privileges etc. without regard to religious differences."'

Nice, right? Of course it is. So why doesn't the Bible adopt such an attitude? I ask because it often seeks to do just the opposite: Forget religious tolerance, pick up your stones, swords and shunning skills, and take your cue from how the Bible approaches those of other faiths:



2 Timothy 4:1-2
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.


2 John 9-11
9 Everyone must continue to follow only the teaching about Christ. Whoever changes that teaching does not have God. But whoever continues to follow the teaching about Christ has both the Father and his Son. 10 Don’t accept those who come to you but do not bring this teaching. Don’t invite them into your house. Don’t welcome them in any way.


Deuteronomy 7: 5-6, 9-10
5 “This is what you must do to those nations [the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites]: You must smash their altars and break their memorial stones into pieces. Cut down their Asherah poles and burn their statues. 6 Do this because you are the Lord’s own people. From all the people on earth, the Lord your God chose you to be his special people—people who belong only to him.
9 “So remember that the Lord your God is the only God, and you can trust him! He keeps his agreement. He shows his love and kindness to all people who love him and obey his commands. He continues to show his love and kindness through a thousand generations, 10 but the Lord punishes people who hate him. He will destroy them. He will not be slow to punish those who hate him.


Deuteronomy 12:2-3
2 You will take that land from the nations that live there now. You must completely destroy all the places where the people of these nations worship their gods. These places are on high mountains, on hills, and under green trees. 3 You must smash their altars and break their memorial stones into pieces. You must burn their Asherah poles and cut down the statues of their gods. Wipe out everything that would remind you of those gods.


Exodus 22:20
20 “Whoever makes a sacrifice to a false god should be destroyed. The Lord is the only one you should make sacrifices to.


Psalm 79:6
6 Turn your anger against the nations that do not know you,
against the people who do not honor you as God.


Deuteronomy 13:6-10
6 “Someone close to you might secretly persuade you to worship other gods. It might be your own brother, your son, your daughter, the wife you love, or your closest friend. They might say, ‘Let’s go and serve other gods.’ (These are gods that you and your ancestors never knew. 7 They are the gods of the people who live in the other lands around you, some near and some far away.) 8 You must not agree with them. Don’t listen to them or feel sorry for them. Don’t let them go free or protect them. 9-10 No, you must kill them with stones. You be the first one to pick up stones and throw at them. Then everyone must throw stones to kill them, because they tried to pull you away from the Lord your God. And it was the Lord who brought you out of the land of Egypt, where you were slaves.


1 Kings 18:19, 18:40
19 Now tell all the people of Israel to meet me at Mount Carmel. Also bring the 450 prophets of Baal and the 400 prophets of the goddess Asherah, who get their support from Queen Jezebel.”
40 Then Elijah said, “Get the prophets of Baal! Don’t let any of them escape!” So the people captured all the prophets. Then Elijah led them down to Kishon Creek and killed them all.


So, so much for Religious Tolerance. Anyone care to defend all this hatred?


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Re: Religious Tolerance

Post #2

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am ...
2 Timothy 4:1-2
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching....
That is speaking of how the person should speak when he sees people doing something wrong. I think that is good and I don't see any problem in that. Even in free society I think it would be good, if people tell, if they think something is not right.
Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am 2 John 9-11
9 Everyone must continue to follow only the teaching about Christ. Whoever changes that teaching does not have God. But whoever continues to follow the teaching about Christ has both the Father and his Son. 10 Don’t accept those who come to you but do not bring this teaching. Don’t invite them into your house. Don’t welcome them in any way. ....
I think it is reasonable that group doesn't accept members that doesn't agree with the group. Why person who doesn't agree with the group would even want to be part of it.

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Re: Religious Tolerance

Post #3

Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:50 am
Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am ...
2 Timothy 4:1-2
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching....
That is speaking of how the person should speak when he sees people doing something wrong. I think that is good and I don't see any problem in that. Even in free society I think it would be good, if people tell, if they think something is not right.
Then I assume you reprove, rebuke, and exhort, those believing other than you do. Ever go to their houses of worship to carry out this directive from your god? If not, why not?


Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am 2 John 9-11
9 Everyone must continue to follow only the teaching about Christ. Whoever changes that teaching does not have God. But whoever continues to follow the teaching about Christ has both the Father and his Son. 10 Don’t accept those who come to you but do not bring this teaching. Don’t invite them into your house. Don’t welcome them in any way. ....
I think it is reasonable that group doesn't accept members that doesn't agree with the group. Why person who doesn't agree with the group would even want to be part of it.
And after having reproved, rebuked, and exhorted them I'm sure they're just fine with not being accepted. Not being invited into your house. And not welcomed in any way. Most likely they're quite happy to put as much distance between you and themselves as possible.



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Re: Religious Tolerance

Post #4

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:08 pm
1213 wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:50 am
Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am ...
2 Timothy 4:1-2
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching....
That is speaking of how the person should speak when he sees people doing something wrong. I think that is good and I don't see any problem in that. Even in free society I think it would be good, if people tell, if they think something is not right.
Then I assume you reprove, rebuke, and exhort, those believing other than you do. Ever go to their houses of worship to carry out this directive from your god? If not, why not?
There is also this advice:

Into whatever city or village you enter, find out who in it is worthy; and stay there until you go on. As you enter into the household, greet it. If the household is worthy, let your peace come on it, but if it isn’t worthy, let your peace return to you. Whoever doesn’t receive you, nor hear your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake off the dust from your feet.
Matt. 10:11-14

If I go, I go when they want it. By what I know, many don’t want it.

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Re: Religious Tolerance

Post #5

Post by nobspeople »

Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am .

Religious tolerance as I see it amounts to allowing people to worship according to the tenets and practices of whatever religion they choose, and without interference. A "Live and Let Live" philosophy as it were. Or, as The Concise Oxford Dictionary (1960) defines religious tolerance:
  • "recognition of right of private judgment in religious matters,
  • liberty to uphold one's religious opinions and forms of worship, or
  • to enjoy all social privileges etc. without regard to religious differences."'

Nice, right? Of course it is. So why doesn't the Bible adopt such an attitude? I ask because it often seeks to do just the opposite: Forget religious tolerance, pick up your stones, swords and shunning skills, and take your cue from how the Bible approaches those of other faiths:



2 Timothy 4:1-2
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.


2 John 9-11
9 Everyone must continue to follow only the teaching about Christ. Whoever changes that teaching does not have God. But whoever continues to follow the teaching about Christ has both the Father and his Son. 10 Don’t accept those who come to you but do not bring this teaching. Don’t invite them into your house. Don’t welcome them in any way.


Deuteronomy 7: 5-6, 9-10
5 “This is what you must do to those nations [the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites]: You must smash their altars and break their memorial stones into pieces. Cut down their Asherah poles and burn their statues. 6 Do this because you are the Lord’s own people. From all the people on earth, the Lord your God chose you to be his special people—people who belong only to him.
9 “So remember that the Lord your God is the only God, and you can trust him! He keeps his agreement. He shows his love and kindness to all people who love him and obey his commands. He continues to show his love and kindness through a thousand generations, 10 but the Lord punishes people who hate him. He will destroy them. He will not be slow to punish those who hate him.


Deuteronomy 12:2-3
2 You will take that land from the nations that live there now. You must completely destroy all the places where the people of these nations worship their gods. These places are on high mountains, on hills, and under green trees. 3 You must smash their altars and break their memorial stones into pieces. You must burn their Asherah poles and cut down the statues of their gods. Wipe out everything that would remind you of those gods.


Exodus 22:20
20 “Whoever makes a sacrifice to a false god should be destroyed. The Lord is the only one you should make sacrifices to.


Psalm 79:6
6 Turn your anger against the nations that do not know you,
against the people who do not honor you as God.


Deuteronomy 13:6-10
6 “Someone close to you might secretly persuade you to worship other gods. It might be your own brother, your son, your daughter, the wife you love, or your closest friend. They might say, ‘Let’s go and serve other gods.’ (These are gods that you and your ancestors never knew. 7 They are the gods of the people who live in the other lands around you, some near and some far away.) 8 You must not agree with them. Don’t listen to them or feel sorry for them. Don’t let them go free or protect them. 9-10 No, you must kill them with stones. You be the first one to pick up stones and throw at them. Then everyone must throw stones to kill them, because they tried to pull you away from the Lord your God. And it was the Lord who brought you out of the land of Egypt, where you were slaves.


1 Kings 18:19, 18:40
19 Now tell all the people of Israel to meet me at Mount Carmel. Also bring the 450 prophets of Baal and the 400 prophets of the goddess Asherah, who get their support from Queen Jezebel.”
40 Then Elijah said, “Get the prophets of Baal! Don’t let any of them escape!” So the people captured all the prophets. Then Elijah led them down to Kishon Creek and killed them all.


So, so much for Religious Tolerance. Anyone care to defend all this hatred?


.
I don't think there's much, if anything, for anyone to defend, if I understand the question correctly. The bible doesn't promise (at least that I remember) for religious tolerance of other beliefs directly. Fact is, it seems to indicate the opposite. Supporting opposing and different views is not the best way to build an empire of control and money taking.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Religious Tolerance

Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am .

Religious tolerance as I see it amounts to allowing people to worship according to the tenets and practices of whatever religion they choose, and without interference.
Most people recognise there must be bounderies and limitations to what a society tolerates.


The Hebrew system was a theocracy which prohibited certain conduct; IDOLATRY was punishible by death. Such laws were a good thing in that they protected the people from harmful practices.

Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am Deuteronomy 7: 5-6, 9-10
5 “This is what you must do to those nations [the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites]: You must smash their altars and break their memorial stones into pieces. Cut down their Asherah poles and burn their statues. 6 Do this because you are the Lord’s own people. From all the people on earth, the Lord your God chose you to be his special people—people who belong only to him.
9 “So remember that the Lord your God is the only God, and you can trust him! He keeps his agreement. He shows his love and kindness to all people who love him and obey his commands. He continues to show his love and kindness through a thousand generations, 10 but the Lord punishes people who hate him. He will destroy them. He will not be slow to punish those who hate him.


Deuteronomy 12:2-3
2 You will take that land from the nations that live there now. You must completely destroy all the places where the people of these nations worship their gods. These places are on high mountains, on hills, and under green trees. 3 You must smash their altars and break their memorial stones into pieces. You must burn their Asherah poles and cut down the statues of their gods. Wipe out everything that would remind you of those gods.


Exodus 22:20
20 “Whoever makes a sacrifice to a false god should be destroyed. The Lord is the only one you should make sacrifices to.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10
6 “Someone close to you might secretly persuade you to worship other gods. It might be your own brother, your son, your daughter, the wife you love, or your closest friend. They might say, ‘Let’s go and serve other gods.’ (These are gods that you and your ancestors never knew. 7 They are the gods of the people who live in the other lands around you, some near and some far away.) 8 You must not agree with them. Don’t listen to them or feel sorry for them. Don’t let them go free or protect them. 9-10 No, you must kill them with stones. You be the first one to pick up stones and throw at them. Then everyone must throw stones to kill them, because they tried to pull you away from the Lord your God. And it was the Lord who brought you out of the land of Egypt, where you were slaves.


1 Kings 18:19, 18:40
19 Now tell all the people of Israel to meet me at Mount Carmel. Also bring the 450 prophets of Baal and the 400 prophets of the goddess Asherah, who get their support from Queen Jezebel.”
40 Then Elijah said, “Get the prophets of Baal! Don’t let any of them escape!” So the people captured all the prophets. Then Elijah led them down to Kishon Creek and killed them all.
[/indent]


The Christian congregation is not to tolerate immorality or apostacy. Although unrepentent sinners were not to be executed, Christianity mandates such ones not be tolerated within the congregation. Church "leaders" were thus given the authority to judge and excommunicate (disfellowship/shun) those that refuse to abide by Christian law.

Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am
2 Timothy 4:1-2
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.


2 John 9-11
9 Everyone must continue to follow only the teaching about Christ. Whoever changes that teaching does not have God. But whoever continues to follow the teaching about Christ has both the Father and his Son. 10 Don’t accept those who come to you but do not bring this teaching. Don’t invite them into your house. Don’t welcome them in any way.



Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am Psalm 79:6
6 Turn your anger against the nations that do not know you,
against the people who do not honor you as God.
Scripturaly, God reserves the right as our creator to judge those he deems as the wicked and eliminate them.





Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am Anyone care to defend all this hatred?
.

There's nothing wrong with hating what is bad.






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Re: Religious Tolerance

Post #7

Post by historia »

Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am
reprove, rebuke, and exhort
Are you not doing those things yourself on this forum, including in this thread?

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Re: Religious Tolerance

Post #8

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:51 am
Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am .

There's nothing wrong with hating what is bad.

But to the point of taking land from nations that live there now, and completely destroying all the places where the people of these nations worship their gods? Guess it depends on whose "bad" it is.

Deuteronomy 12:2-3
2 You will take that land from the nations that live there now. You must completely destroy all the places where the people of these nations worship their gods.

As I see it, this is hardly an order from a fair and loving god, but an order from a hateful god who sees nothing wrong in ordering his followers to invade other countries and destroy their places of worship simply because he didn't like them. Not unlike Hitler who invaded Poland and destroyed synagogues because he didn't like them.

"I did it because I could. "


As for regarding god's orders as just, which I assume you do, I gotta ask: How many practicing male homosexuals have you killed as of late? God dearly wants you to, you know.



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Re: Religious Tolerance

Post #9

Post by Miles »

historia wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:58 am
Miles wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 am
reprove, rebuke, and exhort
Are you not doing those things yourself on this forum, including in this thread?
Hmm, Let's see.

re·prove
/rəˈpro͞ov/
verb: reprove; 3rd person present: reproves; past tense: reproved; past participle: reproved; gerund or present participle: reproving; verb: re-prove; 3rd person present: re-proves; past tense: re-proved; past participle: re-proved; gerund or present participle: re-proving

reprimand or censure (someone)

Nope. It's against forum rules.


re·buke
/rəˈbyo͞ok/
verb: rebuke; 3rd person present: rebukes; past tense: rebuked; past participle: rebuked; gerund or present participle: rebuking

express sharp disapproval or criticism of (someone) because of their behavior or actions.

Not in this thread.

ex·hort
/iɡˈzôrt/
verb: exhort; 3rd person present: exhorts; past tense: exhorted; past participle: exhorted; gerund or present participle: exhorting

strongly encourage or urge (someone) to do something.

Not in this thread.



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Re: Religious Tolerance

Post #10

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:21 pm Guess it depends on whose "bad" it is.

As a Christian I believe it is God who decides what is good and what is bad.

Miles wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:21 pm Not unlike Hitler who invaded Poland and destroyed synagogues because he didn't like them.
God has the right to decide who worships what and since the earth belongs to Him (YHWH) as the Supreme ruler of the universe, He also reserves the right to say who lives where on his planet. Hitler was not God, and had no such rights. The Amlighty owes us no explanation for His decisions but has condesended to explain why he eliminated certain nations. His reasons for eliminating the condemned nations were good, wise and just and cannot be justifiably compared to Hitler's invasion of Poland save for the fact that both exercised power to do their will.
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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