Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 7954
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

A New Heaven and a New Earth
Revelation 21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”


More quotes taken from: https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-s ... earth.html

Isaiah 65:17-19 - “See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy. I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.”

2 Peter 3:13 – “But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”

Revelation 21:1 – “Then I saw ‘a new heaven and a new earth,’ for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.”

Isaiah 66:22 - “‘As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,’ declares the Lord, ‘so will your name and descendants endure.’”


Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

Edit preferences to remove all the fluff: ucp.php?i=ucp_prefs&mode=view

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 7440
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 629 times
Been thanked: 146 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #71

Post by onewithhim »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:03 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:00 am
You made an interesting choice, and, by doing so, gave me an interesting choice too.
I am not particularly interested in your choices. If you believe you can prove the below wrong scripturally, I invite you to take your bible and do so.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:07 pm

WICKED HUMANS SOCIETY ==> CHRIST RETURNS [Destruction of the wicked] ===> New World / JUDGEMENT DAY BEGINS ===> 1000 YEAR OF PEACE
Image

Everything else is just gravy,


JW
I sincerely ask, in awe, how many times does this have to be explained? And you have yet to show with scriptures why JehovahsWitness is wrong with explanations. JW and others have said many times---the Millennial Reign will start immediately after Armageddon. Armageddon is the culmination of the Great Tribulation, and no one knows exactly when the GT will start, but we are told in IThess.5:3 that we know it will begin when the world is saying "Peace and security!" We know that it is close at hand because of Bible chronology and indications from the experiences of Daniel and the Apostle John.

Daniel wrote of an immense image that would be destroyed when the Dual World Power of the United States and Great Britain was still going strong. That is represented with the feet and toes of the image---that is where we are in the stream of time. I've mentioned this many times but apparently you have not bothered to research it or even look it up on Google. (Many non-JWs realize what the image means as well.) What are your specific objections to this, please?

.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18068
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 430 times
Been thanked: 649 times
Contact:

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #72

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Checkpoint wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:10 am
When does this Judgment Day begin, and when does it end?


WICKED HUMANS SOCIETY ==> CHRIST RETURNS [Destruction of the wicked] ===> New World / JUDGEMENT DAY BEGINS ===> 1000 YEAR OF PEACE ===> JUDGEMENT DAY ENDS

Image
Checkpoint wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:10 am

What is its purpose?


Judgement day is the 1000 year period between HARMAGEDDON and the Release of Satan. Its purpose is to bring obedient mankind back to the human perfection God originally purposed in the garden of Eden.





FURTHER READING: What Is Judgment Day?
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines ... gment-day/



RELATED POSTS
When does "Judgement day" begin and when does it end?
viewtopic.php?p=1057509#p1057509

How do we know that "Judgement day" and the MILLENIUM refer to the same period?
viewtopic.php?p=1059011#p1059011

In what sense will the rest or the dead come To life (Rev 20)? [Onewithim]
viewtopic.php?p=965585#p965585
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE MILLENIUM , RESURRECTION and ... JUDGEMENT DAY
GLOSSARY OF TERMS [END TIMES]
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 7440
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 629 times
Been thanked: 146 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #73

Post by onewithhim »

Checkpoint wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:10 am [Replying to Checkpoint in post #68]
I am not particularly interested in your choices. If you believe you can prove the below wrong scripturally, I invite you to take your bible and do so.
Sure.

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:07 pm

WICKED HUMANS SOCIETY ==> CHRIST RETURNS [Destruction of the wicked] ===> New World / JUDGEMENT DAY BEGINS ===> 1000 YEAR OF PEACE
When does this Judgment Day begin, and when does it end?

What is its purpose?
Please see my previous post number 71. I thought I was commenting on one post but I ended up on another post. I commented on when Judgment Day begins, but I didn't mention its purpose. This has been hashed over so many times I can't believe you are still in the dark about it.

Judgment Day = the Millennial Reign. Its purpose is to revive the beautiful earth, bringing it back to the ecological perfection that it was meant to have in the beginning. Also, there will be a great teaching work done, because the millions who are resurrected during this time will need to be apprised of what has happened for the last many thousands of years, and what the truth is about who God is and what his purpose is for the earth and mankind. Everyone will eventually be young again (Job 33:25), if they were old, and all will be working on their perfection in body and mind. At the end of the Reign, everyone will be in the position that perfect Adam was in, in the Garden of Eden before he rebelled. All will be perfect and can then make their stand, as Adam did, as to whether they will follow Jehovah or Satan and his hordes. When this is all finished, those that side with Jehovah will "come alive"---meaning that they will then have the credentials to live forever on Earth.

What are your specific objections?

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4023
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #74

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #72]

If you believe you can prove the below wrong scripturally, I invite you to take your bible and do so.

Judgement day is the 1000 year period between HARMAGEDDON and the Release of Satan.
Wrong scripturally?

Absolutely.

Acts 17:
30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.
Its purpose is to bring obedient mankind back to the human perfection God originally purposed in the garden of Eden.
Wrong biblically?

Indeed it is.

It is proposing a kind of human rerun of the perfect purpose God is well on His way to completing. In His way and in His time, not in man's.

Hebrews 10:

14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.[/quote]
Last edited by Checkpoint on Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 7440
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 629 times
Been thanked: 146 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #75

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #74]
I don't understand why you are disagreeing with JehovahsWitness. Can you explain more clearly? Nothing that JW said conflicts with what you cited.

.

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4023
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #76

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim post_id=1057781 time=1638289832 user_id=12805]
[Replying to Checkpoint in post #74]
I don't understand why you are disagreeing with JehovahsWitness. Can you explain more clearly? Nothing that JW said conflicts with what you cited.
Look again at these two statements:
Judgement day is the 1000 year period between HARMAGEDDON and the Release of Satan. Its purpose is to bring obedient mankind back to the human perfection God originally purposed in the garden of Eden.

For he has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the man He has appointed.
Acts 17:31

What is wrong biblically with the JW statement?

Judgment Day is not the millennium. It is a metaphorical day God has set, or appointed.

Its purpose is God's judgment of mankind and of the devil and those with him.

It will be a judicial process, in which all will give an account of their life to the judge, who will be Jesus. An event, in a courtroom setting.

I'm pretty sure you know all this, and what follows, so I've not said anything new, or anything contrary to, or additional to, what Scripture says.

To achieve its purpose, Judgment Day does not need, and will not last, one year, let alone 1000.

A purpose that has nothing in common with the purpose you and JW wrote about.

Do you understand now?

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18068
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 430 times
Been thanked: 649 times
Contact:

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #77

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm

Judgment Day is not the millennium.
Why do you say this? What is the scriptural basis for this objection? Acts 17 says God has set a day. It will be either a literal 24 hour day'or a metaphorical day of a period of time.

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm It is a metaphorical day God has set, or appointed.
Yes, in this we are both saying the same thing. Judgement DAY is not a literal 24 hour long "day". The word "day" is a metaphor for: A specific period of time. In this case that time period being 1000 years.

If you recognising is not a literal 24 hour day, then why do you object to it being a 1000 year "day"?


HOW DO WE KNOW JUDGEMENT DAY IS A METAPHIC DAY LASTING 1000 YEARS?


REVELATION 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.a And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.

JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18068
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 430 times
Been thanked: 649 times
Contact:

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #78

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm
Its purpose is God's judgment of ... the devil and those with him.
The Devil (and the demons) have already been judged, found GUILTY and condemned (see Genesis 3:15 compare Rev 20:2, 10). They are damned already and just waiting execution!

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm
Its purpose is God's judgment of ... mankind

A judge examines the actions of a person based on specific criteria and rewards or punishes them accordingly. During that period all mankind (including the resurrected dead) will be assessed by Jesus and the 144,000.Since Jesus (and his associates) both judge and rule what do you think conditions will be like during that time good or bad?

If you agree that mankind will be judged (during that period) what do you think the desired outcome (purpose) of that judgement will be? Why is God (through Jesus ) judging mankind? So that after we continue in the same miserable conditions we were in before that judgement began? Or is it not to lift us up to better things? So that those that comply to righteous rule improve in body and spirit or that they degrade?
Clearly the PURPOSE or reason for the judgement is to see obedient mankind get the everlasting life in the conditions originally purposed!




JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18068
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 430 times
Been thanked: 649 times
Contact:

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #79

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm
It will be a judicial process, in which all will give an account of their life to the judge....
And why would every human have to repeat everything they have ever done? Was God not watching ? ( A human judge needs testimonies because he wasn't there and cannot know what the defendent knows, felt or is feeling). God doesnt need anyone to tell him what we have done and why, He already knows.

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm An event, in a courtroom setting.
So you believe it will be a metaphoric day but in a non-metaphoric setting?

In bible times JUDGES were not simply there to punish infringements on the law; they were defacto "rulers" that guided the people to live in a way that respected the law. When we read the book of Judges for example we see that the judges played a major role in protecting and fighting for the people but also in helping them to keep to Gods law and thus propser as a nation. In revelation mankind is before a great white THRONE representing rulership and Christ in Revelation 20 acts as both judge and ruler.

CONCLUSION: The idea of a long line of people recounting their lives in a courtroom could not be further from the biblical idea of judgement day presented in scripture. Rather than being a stressful and pointless rehash of the past, biblical judgement day is a delightful period when people can prove what they are by their actions.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4023
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #80

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #71]
I sincerely ask, in awe, how many times does this have to be explained? And you have yet to show with scriptures why JehovahsWitness is wrong with explanations.
What are your specific objections to this, please?
Sadly, sometimes, however many times we explain, it just does not register with the other person.

I do not recall any earlier exchanges with JW. So I cannot provide the details you are seeking, as to my objections.

That was then; this is now. In the current debate, I have given my objection and explanation.

In the hope that it wil register with you.

Post Reply