Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

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Wootah
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Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

A New Heaven and a New Earth
Revelation 21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”


More quotes taken from: https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-s ... earth.html

Isaiah 65:17-19 - “See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy. I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.”

2 Peter 3:13 – “But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”

Revelation 21:1 – “Then I saw ‘a new heaven and a new earth,’ for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.”

Isaiah 66:22 - “‘As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,’ declares the Lord, ‘so will your name and descendants endure.’”


Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?
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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #81

Post by onewithhim »

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm
onewithhim post_id=1057781 time=1638289832 user_id=12805]
[Replying to Checkpoint in post #74]
I don't understand why you are disagreeing with JehovahsWitness. Can you explain more clearly? Nothing that JW said conflicts with what you cited.
Look again at these two statements:
Judgement day is the 1000 year period between HARMAGEDDON and the Release of Satan. Its purpose is to bring obedient mankind back to the human perfection God originally purposed in the garden of Eden.

For he has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the man He has appointed.
Acts 17:31

What is wrong biblically with the JW statement?

Judgment Day is not the millennium. It is a metaphorical day God has set, or appointed.

Its purpose is God's judgment of mankind and of the devil and those with him.

It will be a judicial process, in which all will give an account of their life to the judge, who will be Jesus. An event, in a courtroom setting.

I'm pretty sure you know all this, and what follows, so I've not said anything new, or anything contrary to, or additional to, what Scripture says.

To achieve its purpose, Judgment Day does not need, and will not last, one year, let alone 1000.

A purpose that has nothing in common with the purpose you and JW wrote about.

Do you understand now?
No. We have written about just what you have posted. We agree. It seems that our only difference here is that you don't consider the Millennium to be Judgment Day, and we do. There needs to be 1,000 years. Millions and perhaps billions of people will be resurrected into the Millennial Reign, and they will all have to be taught the truth. This will take many years. And then those folks will have to make up their minds what they want to do. At the end they will be given the choice as to whether they want to honor and worship Jehovah or not.

.

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #82

Post by Checkpoint »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:55 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm

Judgment Day is not the millennium.
Why do you say this? What is the scriptural basis for this objection? Acts 17 says God has set a day. It will be either a literal 24 hour day'or a metaphorical day of a period of time.

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm It is a metaphorical day God has set, or appointed.
Yes, in this we are both saying the same thing. Judgement DAY is not a literal 24 hour long "day". The word "day" is a metaphor for: A specific period of time. In this case that time period being 1000 years.

If you recognising is not a literal 24 hour day, then why do you object to it being a 1000 year "day"?


HOW DO WE KNOW JUDGEMENT DAY IS A METAPHIC DAY LASTING 1000 YEARS?


REVELATION 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.a And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.
JW
Good post; seemingly well reasoned and well put together.

To no avail, however, as it cannot replace what God's Word specifically states and describes.

Good passage of scripture too. But it is misapplied in this context, as it does not describe Judgment Day but the thousand years that precede it.

So, God's Word stands; strong, secure, and active. Hebrews 4:12-13.

Here are two examples:
Romans 2:
3b do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when His righteous judgment will be revealed.

6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.


9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

Matthew 25:

31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.

32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #83

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Checkpoint wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:59 am

HOW DO WE KNOW JUDGEMENT DAY IS A METAPHIC DAY LASTING 1000 YEARS?


REVELATION 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.a And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.

[This] does not describe Judgment Day but the thousand years that precede it.

Okay, so you agree there will be a 1000-year period. You agree that Jesus will JUDGE for that 1000 year period. So you agree there will be a 1,000 year judgement period, correct?




HOW LONG WOULD THE COURTROOM SCENERIO TAKE?

(I hate maths so anybody that doesn't can correct me if I'm wrong)
It is estimated that about 100 billion* people have ever lived. If everyone got 1 hour to be judged by their maker , that would be ... 100 billion* HOURS (100, 000, 000,000 hours) the equal of 11.5 MILLION YEARS (11,415,525)
Image
*(A billion is 1000 million)
Even if the reality is a third of that number of people have ever lived (I seriously doubt anywhere near that number of people have lived) ... that would still be nearly 4 million years. Or 2 million years if everyone got half an hour to explain their lives....





HAPPY FOR MY MATHS TO BE CORRECTED!
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:01 pm, edited 5 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #84

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Check point,

You have brought out some very good points in your post # 82. Thank you!

Here are a couple of things which all should carefully consider:

"The elements shall melt with fervent heat." Will this occur at the beginning of the millennium or at the end? Does this also suggest that those who survive this event must learn to become holy as he is holy? In this cleansing process of the earth, does this indicate the possibility of the earth fleeing to a new orbit or location?

At the beginning of the 1000 year millennial period Satan or Lucifer will be bound. Why will he be loosed at the end of this 1000 year period to tempt mankind?

Best wishes,
RW

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #85

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:07 am
Checkpoint wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:59 am

HOW DO WE KNOW JUDGEMENT DAY IS A METAPHIC DAY LASTING 1000 YEARS?


REVELATION 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.a And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.

[This] does not describe Judgment Day but the thousand years that precede it.

Okay, so you agree there will be a 1000-year period. You agree that Jesus will JUDGE for that 1000 year period. So you agree there will be a 1,000 year judgement period, correct?




HOW LONG WOULD THE COURTROOM SCENERIO TAKE?

(I hate maths so anybody that doesn't can correct me if I'm wrong)
It is estimated that about 100 billion* people have ever lived. If everyone got 1 hour to be judged by their maker , that would be ... 100 billion* HOURS (100, 000, 000,000 hours) the equal of 11.5 MILLION YEARS (11,415,525)
Image
*(A billion is 1000 million)
Even if the reality is a third of that number of people have ever lived (I seriously doubt anywhere near that number of people have lived) ... that would still be nearly 4 million years. Or 2 million years if everyone got half an hour to explain their lives....

HAPPY FOR MY MATHS TO BE CORRECTED!
It is the Lord God/YHWY who will judge (Ezekiel 34:20-24), but it will be "My servant David, who will be prince among them", who will rule. Judgment day is the Day of the Lord, which initiates the millennium. Judgment day, the "great tribulation" (Matthew 24) will be "cut short" in order for any to survive. As for the fire of judgment day, Zechariah 14:12 describes the curse given to the surrounding nations, which is the curse of radiation poisoning. "Their flesh will rot as they stand on their feet". The "day of the LORD", judgment day, precedes the millennium. The "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31) is when the nations/Gentiles will be judged (Joel 3:1-2). After the "day of the LORD", "Judah will be inhabited forever". (Joel 3:20). Judah will be reunited with Ephraim, and they will live on the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37), with king David as their king/prince/shepherd.

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #86

Post by Checkpoint »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:05 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm
It will be a judicial process, in which all will give an account of their life to the judge....
And why would every human have to repeat everything they have ever done? Was God not watching ? ( A human judge needs testimonies because he wasn't there and cannot know what the defendent knows, felt or is feeling). God doesnt need anyone to tell him what we have done and why, He already knows.

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm An event, in a courtroom setting.
So you believe it will be a metaphoric day but in a non-metaphoric setting?

In bible times JUDGES were not simply there to punish infringements on the law; they were defacto "rulers" that guided the people to live in a way that respected the law. When we read the book of Judges for example we see that the judges played a major role in protecting and fighting for the people but also in helping them to keep to Gods law and thus propser as a nation. In revelation mankind is before a great white THRONE representing rulership and Christ in Revelation 20 acts as both judge and ruler.

CONCLUSION: The idea of a long line of people recounting their lives in a courtroom could not be further from the biblical idea of judgement day presented in scripture. Rather than being a stressful and pointless rehash of the past, biblical judgement day is a delightful period when people can prove what they are by their actions.
Much ado over "the small stuff". Such as literal or metaphorical.

And the usual avoidance of those two passages, which continue to demonstrate you are wrong scripturally.

What you are trying to do won't work. A square peg just will not fit into a round hole.

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #87

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Checkpoint wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:59 am
REVELATION 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.a And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.

.... does not describe Judgment Day but the thousand years that precede it.
But you concede that during those thousands years that precede judgment day Jesus IS GOING TO BE JUDGING..


So you are saying.... (A) but it might as Well be (B)

(A) |<==== 1000 years Jesus JUDGES /RULES ======>| then Judgement "day"?
(B) |<======================== JUDGEMENT PERIOD =======================>|



It seems to me you are just fixating on the word "day", if you just call it a judgement PERIOD then it becomes indistinguisable from the millenium (you're already recognised that its a metaphoric not a literal 24 hour "day")




The seperating of the sheep and the goals (Matthew 25) must come before any of the above as it is part of the sign of the end of the present system of things.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #88

Post by Checkpoint »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:31 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:59 am
REVELATION 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.a And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.

.... does not describe Judgment Day but the thousand years that precede it.
But you concede that during those thousands years that precede judgment day Jesus IS GOING TO BE JUDGING..


So you are saying.... (A) but it might as Well be (B)

(A) |<==== 1000 years Jesus JUDGES /RULES ======>| then Judgement "day"?
(B) |<======================== JUDGEMENT PERIOD =======================>|



It seems to me you are just fixating on the word "day", if you just call it a judgement PERIOD then it becomes indistinguisable from the millenium (you're already recognised that its a metaphoric not a literal 24 hour "day")
What Jesus does during the thousand years is not what he will do on Judgment Day.

A literal day is also a period of time.

Fixating? That is what JWs have been doing, on the thousand years. Calling it Judgment Day stems from this. It is wrong biblically.

The seperating of the sheep and the goals (Matthew 25) must come before any of [the above as it is part of the sign of the end of the present system of things.
No, it is not the sign of the end, and not before it.

It is an integral part of the Judgment Day scenario Jesus painted in parable.

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #89

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Checkpoint wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:25 pm
What Jesus does during the thousand years is not what he will do on Judgment Day.
But biblically the verb JUDGE is applied to both periods, no ?

REVELATION 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.a And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #90

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:47 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:25 pm
What Jesus does during the thousand years is not what he will do on Judgment Day.
But biblically the verb JUDGE is applied to both periods, no ?

REVELATION 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.a And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.
Judgment and judging/reigning are not the same thing. Judgment is the punishment, whereas judging and "reigning with Christ" are not the same thing. The "Judge" will be YHWH per Ezekiel 34:20, whereas "Christ" will be "My servant David" who "will be prince/Christ/shepherd among them" (Ezekiel 34:23). King David reigned and judged before. As he judged, so was the judgment levied against him. Judging and judgment are two different elements. If someone is merciful in judging, their judgment from YHWY might be alleviated. Judgment day is quick and is "cut short" (Matthew 24:22). Reigning, and passing judgment will last 1000 years.

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