Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

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Wootah
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Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

A New Heaven and a New Earth
Revelation 21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”


More quotes taken from: https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-s ... earth.html

Isaiah 65:17-19 - “See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy. I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.”

2 Peter 3:13 – “But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”

Revelation 21:1 – “Then I saw ‘a new heaven and a new earth,’ for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.”

Isaiah 66:22 - “‘As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,’ declares the Lord, ‘so will your name and descendants endure.’”


Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?
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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #91

Post by JehovahsWitness »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:44 pm ... Judgment is the punishment, whereas judging and "reigning with Christ" are not the same thing.
This seems somewhat arbitrary to put it kindly. Judging is simply the verb and judgement the noun of the same base. He that judges makes judgements. Are you saying there are no examples in scripture of favorable judgements? Are you saying that during judgement day there will be judgements but no judging?!
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Romans 14:8

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #92

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:53 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:44 pm ... Judgment is the punishment, whereas judging and "reigning with Christ" are not the same thing.
This seems somewhat arbitrary to put it kindly. Judging is simply the verb and judgement the noun of the same base. He that judges makes judgements. Are you saying there are no examples in scripture of favorable judgements? Are you saying that during judgement day there will be judgements but no judging?!
On judgment day, YHWY will bring down judgment on the "wicked", often referred to as Har-Magedon (Revelation 16:16-21), the great tribulation, mostly in the form of a "great earthquake" and "huge hailstones" of "one hundred pounds each". The "judgment" (tribulation) is further explained in Revelation, and it is dispensed by angels. The judgment of Matthew 13:39-42 is also dispensed by angels of the Lord. The ruling/reining during the millennium is with respect to the nations/Gentiles, being ruled by a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15). The nations keep the law of keeping the feast of Booths, or judgment will prevail in the form of no rain to the offending nations (Zechariah 14:18). Only those who had not worshipped the "beast" would "come to life" and reign with Christ. During the day of the LORD (Joel 2:31-32), judgment will come upon the nations (Gentiles). Judging is for determining the consequences, judgment is the consequence. The judgment will be that Judah will sell the nations to the Sabeans, just as the nations had sold Israel & Judah to the nations. (Joel 3:8). That verdict/judgment has already been decreed. This may not fit your predetermined narrative, but CNN has the same type of problem. The prophets say one thing, and the daughters of Babylon say another. You can hang on to the falsehoods of your fathers (Jeremiah 16:19) or seek what the prophets actually say. Of course, you will have to drop the false prophets, such as your premier self-professed apostle Paul.

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #93

Post by Checkpoint »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:47 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:25 pm
What Jesus does during the thousand years is not what he will do on Judgment Day.
But biblically the verb JUDGE is applied to both periods, no ?

REVELATION 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.a And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.
But biblically?

It's not about the verb "JUDGE.

iT IS about JUDGMENT DAY.

WHAT IT IS AND IS NOT, AND WHEN IT WILL TAKE PLACE AND WILL NOT TAKE PLACE. BIBLICALLY.
Last edited by Checkpoint on Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #94

Post by onewithhim »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:44 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:47 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:25 pm
What Jesus does during the thousand years is not what he will do on Judgment Day.
But biblically the verb JUDGE is applied to both periods, no ?

REVELATION 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.a And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.
Judgment and judging/reigning are not the same thing. Judgment is the punishment, whereas judging and "reigning with Christ" are not the same thing. The "Judge" will be YHWH per Ezekiel 34:20, whereas "Christ" will be "My servant David" who "will be prince/Christ/shepherd among them" (Ezekiel 34:23). King David reigned and judged before. As he judged, so was the judgment levied against him. Judging and judgment are two different elements. If someone is merciful in judging, their judgment from YHWY might be alleviated. Judgment day is quick and is "cut short" (Matthew 24:22). Reigning, and passing judgment will last 1000 years.
I would say that judgment is not just punishment. It also involves exonerating the ones who remained faithful.

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #95

Post by onewithhim »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:53 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:44 pm ... Judgment is the punishment, whereas judging and "reigning with Christ" are not the same thing.
This seems somewhat arbitrary to put it kindly. Judging is simply the verb and judgement the noun of the same base. He that judges makes judgements. Are you saying there are no examples in scripture of favorable judgements? Are you saying that during judgement day there will be judgements but no judging?!
Jehovah'sWitness, it is becoming unfruitful I guess to try and convince someone who will not see our side of the story. Someday soon you and I and timothy and tigger and other JWs will be looking back on Armageddon and sitting safe in Jesus' new Thousand-Year Reign, enjoying this beautiful earth that will be being cleaned up and replenished and more beautified even than it is now, and we'll be sad that our associates on this forum and many others did not listen and are not there to share a few Margaritas with us beside our pools while our children romp with a few bears and lions. We will have 1,000 years to help set everything right that went wrong with the earth (e.g., pollution), and to work back to perfection. We will finally be like Adam and Eve before they rebelled. We will have the privilege of choosing Jehovah's or Satan's side, and "coming to life" for being faithful to Jehovah. How I wish more would listen to Jehovah.

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #96

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:06 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:44 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:47 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:25 pm
What Jesus does during the thousand years is not what he will do on Judgment Day.
But biblically the verb JUDGE is applied to both periods, no ?

REVELATION 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.a And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.
Judgment and judging/reigning are not the same thing. Judgment is the punishment, whereas judging and "reigning with Christ" are not the same thing. The "Judge" will be YHWH per Ezekiel 34:20, whereas "Christ" will be "My servant David" who "will be prince/Christ/shepherd among them" (Ezekiel 34:23). King David reigned and judged before. As he judged, so was the judgment levied against him. Judging and judgment are two different elements. If someone is merciful in judging, their judgment from YHWY might be alleviated. Judgment day is quick and is "cut short" (Matthew 24:22). Reigning, and passing judgment will last 1000 years.
I would say that judgment is not just punishment. It also involves exonerating the ones who remained faithful.
The "faithful" need no "exonerating". The "faithful" "come to life" and are given leadership (Revelation 20:4). There are "few" "faithful" among the living (Matthew 7:14) and seem to be limited to 144,000 that are without a lie on their lips (Revelation 14:1-4). The white throne judgment is with respect to the deeds of the risen after the millennium, and they will be judged according to their deeds. The ensuing "judgment" will be predicated on their deeds.

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #97

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:31 am
Checkpoint wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:28 pm
onewithhim post_id=1057781 time=1638289832 user_id=12805]
[Replying to Checkpoint in post #74]
I don't understand why you are disagreeing with JehovahsWitness. Can you explain more clearly? Nothing that JW said conflicts with what you cited.
Look again at these two statements:
Judgement day is the 1000 year period between HARMAGEDDON and the Release of Satan. Its purpose is to bring obedient mankind back to the human perfection God originally purposed in the garden of Eden.

For he has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the man He has appointed.
Acts 17:31

What is wrong biblically with the JW statement?

Judgment Day is not the millennium. It is a metaphorical day God has set, or appointed.

Its purpose is God's judgment of mankind and of the devil and those with him.

It will be a judicial process, in which all will give an account of their life to the judge, who will be Jesus. An event, in a courtroom setting.

I'm pretty sure you know all this, and what follows, so I've not said anything new, or anything contrary to, or additional to, what Scripture says.

To achieve its purpose, Judgment Day does not need, and will not last, one year, let alone 1000.

A purpose that has nothing in common with the purpose you and JW wrote about.

Do you understand now?
No. We have written about just what you have posted. We agree. It seems that our only difference here is that you don't consider the Millennium to be Judgment Day, and we do.

You do. Which the Bible never does anywhere.

Until JW wrote of it on this thread, I was in the dark as to this JW
doctrine.

So it astonished me, and I was disappointed.

But it is what it is. And so easy to refute.

There needs to be 1,000 years. Millions and perhaps billions of people will be resurrected into the Millennial Reign, and they will all have to be taught the truth. This will take many years. And then those folks will have to make up their minds what they want to do. At the end they will be given the choice as to whether they want to honor and worship Jehovah or not.
It seems the WTS had a need and decided the millennium was ideal to meet that need.

It reads well, yet something is missing.


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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #98

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Checkpoint wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:53 pm
But biblically?

It's not about the verb "JUDGE.

iT IS about JUDGMENT DAY.

WHAT IT IS AND IS NOT, AND WHEN IT WILL TAKE PLACE AND WILL NOT TAKE PLACE. BIBLICALLY.
Okay so when do you say judgement day[1] takes place in relation to the destruction/rewarding of the sheep and the goals[2] and the judgjng of the kings'that rule with Christ[3]?And where is the HARAGEDDON [4] in this mix


[1] then [2] then [3]? {{ scriptural support please}}

Or

[2] then [1] then [3]? {{ scriptural support please}}


Or

[2] then [3] then [1] ? {{ scriptural support please}}
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #99

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #98]

I don't get what Checkpoint finds to disagree with concerning Judgment Day. It seems pretty clear to me that the Millennium is that "Day." If you come to understand what Checkpoint's viewpoint means, let me know. :D

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Re: Is there a new heaven and a new earth coming?

Post #100

Post by Checkpoint »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:22 am
Checkpoint wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:53 pm
But biblically?

It's not about the verb "JUDGE.

iT IS about JUDGMENT DAY.

WHAT IT IS AND IS NOT, AND WHEN IT WILL TAKE PLACE AND WILL NOT TAKE PLACE. BIBLICALLY.
Okay so when do you say judgement day[1] takes place in relation to the destruction/rewarding of the sheep and the goals[2] and the judgjng of the kings'that rule with Christ[3]?And where is the HARAGEDDON [4] in this mix


[1] then [2] then [3]? {{ scriptural support please}}

Or

[2] then [1] then [3]? {{ scriptural support please}}


Or

[2] then [3] then [1] ? {{ scriptural support please}}
Yes, you have put forward a mix, and given several possible answers.

What do I say about what fits where or when? Nothing.

Sorting out mixes is not what I do. It is a side track to the left or the right. Isaiah 31:28.

I prefer to keep the main thing the main thing.

In this discussion between us Judgment Day is the main thing.

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