A lame promise? "This generation shall not pass until...". Matthew 24:34

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Checkpoint
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A lame promise? "This generation shall not pass until...". Matthew 24:34

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

This thread continues from this exchange between Miles and Checkpoint:

Miles wrote:
No more so than the events in the lame promise Jesus made in Matthew 24:

Matthew 24:34
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Sorry, but the crucial qualifier here is, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." And, of course, the problem here is that the generation did, in fact, pass, and none of the things were fulfilled.
.
Checkpoint wrote:
Quite so, it seems to nearly everyone.

Their problem is their assumption of who Jesus was referring to as comprising "this generation".
Miles wrote:
So, what do you think "this" and "generation" apply to?

I take "this" to mean


this
/T͟His/
pronoun: this; pronoun: these

1. used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced.
source:Oxford Languages


and "generation" to mean


gen·er·a·tion
/ˌjenəˈrāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: generation; plural noun: generations

1. all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively.
source:Oxford Languages

So, what do you think "this" and "generation" apply to?
Checkpoint wrote:

They apply to the particular people group he often spoke to, or spoke about. Almost always in a negative manner.
Miles wrote:
But as can be seen from the definition I cited in Oxford Languages this isn't what "generation" means at all. It means:

"All of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively."


Almost always in a negative manner.
Okay.
Last edited by Checkpoint on Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FaithWillDo
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Re: A lame promise? "This generation shall not pass until...". Matthew 24:34

Post #61

Post by FaithWillDo »

Checkpoint wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:35 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:15 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #26]
When all of the signs have occurred, some of those alive in that generation will live to see the Second Coming.
Jesus never called the generation he often mentioned, "that generation".

He called it what it was then, "this generation".

"this" does not mean "that", and "that does not mean "this".

His "this generation" of Matthew 24:34 is the same one that he talked to and about.

He did not talk about two generations that would have an almost 2000 year time gap, with multiple generations in between.

And no, it is not simply a matter of choosing between those two generations; of choosing the "right" one and rejecting the "wrong" one.

No, he instead spoke of one generation; this generation that was existent then and remains existent today, and will do so until he returns.

How can that possibly be? It is what it is. With God all things are possible.

I'm claiming only what Jesus claimed, as recorded in the Gospels. And doing so without making unproven assumptions.
All generations stem from their father, who is the one who generates.

Since all fathers die, each generation has a short time-span, for humans.

How then, will "this generation" last as long as Jesus said it would?

By stemming from a father that is not human or natural, and soon dies, but from a father who is spiritual and super-natural, and therefore does not soon die.

That father is clearly identified in the Gospels.

He is the devil, who showed up on day one as the serpent.

The Gospels are clear and plain. Here are some examples:
Matthew 3:
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood(generation) of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.
10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire".

Matthew 12:
33“Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.

34 You brood(generation) of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.

36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

38Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here.
42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here.

John 8:
43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say?

44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Dear Checkpoint,
I read your post and the context of the verse where it says "this generation will not pass away". After careful study and consideration, I have amended my previous understanding slightly based upon some of what you stated.

Here is the verse in better context:

Mat 24:32-34 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Like I said earlier, Matthew chapter 24 is a teaching on the pathway to salvation that leads up to conversion. Matthew 24:32-34 is specifically teaching on the timing of that conversion event for each chosen believer.

The "fig tree" is a spiritual symbol which is representative of all "Called Out Christians" who have also been "chosen from the foundation of the world" but who have not yet been converted. When a "fig tree" puts forth its leaves during the summer, the tree is near the time when it will produce its fruit. And in like manner, when a chosen believer sees all the signs that Christ previously presented in the chapter happen to them personally, then the chosen believer can know that Christ's appearing with the Latter Rain (conversion event) is "near, even at the doors".

Rather than this "generation" being the generation of people who Christ was physically speaking to (as I previously stated), it is referring to Christ's offspring (similar to what you said) who are the First Fruits of His harvest of mankind. This "generation" represents ALL the Heirs/First Fruits who will be saved in this age. This "generation" includes and begins with the Apostles who were converted at Pentecost and has continued with each chosen believer up until this very day. They are this "generation" (offspring of Christ).

These chosen believers (the generation) are the ones who have their days shortened (they do not have to wait until the end of the final age to be saved) and who will not pass away (die in the wilderness like non-chosen believers do) until they are converted and saved (bring forth spiritual fruit). The rest of mankind (all unbelievers and those "called out" but NOT chosen believers) will not experience this new birth until the end of the final age, at which time, Christ will bring in the full and complete harvest of mankind.

Joe

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Re: A lame promise? "This generation shall not pass until...". Matthew 24:34

Post #62

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to FaithWillDo in post #61]

FaithWillDo wrote:
Rather than this "generation" being the generation of people who Christ was physically speaking to (as I previously stated), it is referring to Christ's offspring (similar to what you said) who are the First Fruits of His harvest of mankind. This "generation" represents ALL the Heirs/First Fruits who will be saved in this age. This "generation" includes and begins with the Apostles who were converted at Pentecost and has continued with each chosen believer up until this very day. They are this "generation" (offspring of Christ).

These chosen believers (the generation) are the ones who have their days shortened (they do not have to wait until the end of the final age to be saved) and who will not pass away (die in the wilderness like non-chosen believers do) until they are converted and saved (bring forth spiritual fruit). The rest of mankind (all unbelievers and those "called out" but NOT chosen believers) will not experience this new birth until the end of the final age, at which time, Christ will bring in the full and complete harvest of mankind.

Joe

Thanks Joe, for your post in response to mine.

Yes, the Bible does tell us about "the full and complete harvest of mankind" which Jesus said was "the end of the age". See especially Matthew 13: 24-30; 36-43, and Revelation 14: 14-20.

What is then harvested is not believers only, but the two groups; of the two generations, that make up all of mankind.

That is, believers as the "chosen generation", see 1 Peter 2: 9. And as the firstfruits, see James 1: 18 and Revelation 14: 4.

Plus all unbelievers, as being "this generation", which Jesus called a "brood of vipers" that began with Cain and will continue until his return. Matthew 23: 33-36; 24: 34.

Matthew 24: 1-34 is not a teaching about conversion or salvation. Neither is it about the Apostles/ Pentecost, or the Latter Rain.

It is about predictions of future events and situations.

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