Resurrection

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Noose001
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Resurrection

Post #1

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Biblical Ressurection; The idea that dead believers' spirits immediately transit into living believers minds, why not? I.e. the dead believers resurrect immediately and indwell the living belivers here on earth.

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Re: Resurrection

Post #11

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Tcg wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:31 pm

It does not teach that Elijah indwelled John, but rather that he would go "before him in the spirit and power of Elijah."


Tcg
Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and awesome Day of the LORD.

Matt 11:
13For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15He who has ears, let him hear.

Mark 9:11
And they asked Jesus, "Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

It's not just the spirit but a person (Elijah) was to come before Christ and he was John, even though he was asked if he was Elijah and he denied.

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Re: Resurrection

Post #12

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Miles wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:36 pm
Noose001 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:44 am Biblical Ressurection; The idea that dead believers' spirits immediately transit into living believers minds, why not? I.e. the dead believers resurrect immediately and indwell the living belivers here on earth.
I wasn't aware that's where the spirit resided, in one's mind. If that's where it goes in a resurrection I assume it would go into that of an infant. No? Otherwise wouldn't it really mess with a child, whom I'm told already have their own spirit?


.
Spirit is actually a mind or an understanding.

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Re: Resurrection

Post #13

Post by Tcg »

Noose001 wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:56 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:31 pm

It does not teach that Elijah indwelled John, but rather that he would go "before him in the spirit and power of Elijah."


Tcg
Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and awesome Day of the LORD.

Matt 11:
13For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15He who has ears, let him hear.

Mark 9:11
And they asked Jesus, "Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

It's not just the spirit but a person (Elijah) was to come before Christ and he was John, even though he was asked if he was Elijah and he denied.
None of this even attempts to address the fact I presented. Nothing here implies that the spirit of Elijah indwelled John the Baptist.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Resurrection

Post #14

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onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:16 pm

It wasn't Elijah's spirit body, like John with the spirit body of Elijah possessing him. No, Elijah's "spirit" was Elijah's mind-set and ways of thinking (his impelling mental inclination) that influenced John the Baptist. Humans do not have spirits within them that are conscious and go on living after the death of the person. The Bible does not say that anywhere. Can you show me exactly where you get that idea? When a person dies he is dead and is conscious of NOTHING. (Ecclesiastes 9:5)It is as if he was in a deep sleep from which he wakes up only when Jesus institutes the Resurrection "in the last day." (John 5:28; John 6:40,44; John 11:11)
Except that believers do not die but transition in a twinkling of an eye. The thief on the cross was promised heaven that same night, i don't think he was going to sleep until....
It is biblical that believers die and resurrect almost simultaneously to indwell the minds of living believers where they judge them.

Example:

2 Pet 1:
12Therefore I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of my body,b 14because I know that this tent will soon be laid aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to ensure that after my departure, you will be able to recall these things at all times.

Peter here seems to say that he will continue reminding them even after his death. The word arrangement suggests that he's not going to sleep.

[/quote]

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Re: Resurrection

Post #15

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Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:07 am


None of this even attempts to address the fact I presented. Nothing here implies that the spirit of Elijah indwelled John the Baptist.


Tcg
You mean, even Jesus saying that John is Elijah?
Last edited by Noose001 on Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Resurrection

Post #16

Post by Tcg »

Noose001 wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:12 am
Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:07 am


None of this even attempts to address the fact I presented. Nothing here implies that the spirit of Elijah indwelled John the Baptist.


Tcg
You mean, even Jesus saying that John is Elijah?
Yes. Jesus didn't say that Elijah indwelled John the Baptist. It is figurative language, not literal.


Tcg
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- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Resurrection

Post #17

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Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:14 am [

Yes. Jesus didn't say that Elijah indwelled John the Baptist. It is figurative language, not literal.


Tcg
There's actually nothing to argue about here.

1. It is prophesied that Elijah comes first. Spirits do not precede persons; coming first meant that people had to wait for a person then the Messiah
2. Jesus said John was Elijah
3. it is also said John moved in the spirit of Elijah

So, The spirit of Elijah indwelled John and it was not just some spirit going before John.

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Re: Resurrection

Post #18

Post by Tcg »

Noose001 wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:20 am
Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:14 am [

Yes. Jesus didn't say that Elijah indwelled John the Baptist. It is figurative language, not literal.


Tcg
There's actually nothing to argue about here.

1. It is prophesied that Elijah comes first. Spirits do not precede persons; coming first meant that people had to wait for a person then the Messiah
2. Jesus said John was Elijah
3. it is also said John moved in the spirit of Elijah

So, The spirit of Elijah indwelled John and it was not just some spirit going before John.
Nope. Nothing you've listed implies that the spirit of Elijah indwelled John the Baptist. Point number 3. is most suspect and of course unsupported.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Resurrection

Post #19

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Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:24 am
Nope. Nothing you've listed implies that the spirit of Elijah indwelled John the Baptist. Point number 3. is most suspect and of course unsupported.


Tcg
It doesn't have to say that 'Elijah indwelled John' in those exact words but we know the implication. What we also know is that it was not some spirit ouyside John guiding him.
Last edited by Noose001 on Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Resurrection

Post #20

Post by Tcg »

Noose001 wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:37 am
Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:24 am
Nope. Nothing you've listed implies that the spirit of Elijah indwelled John the Baptist. Point number 3. is most suspect and of course unsupported.


Tcg
It doesn't have to say that 'Elijah indwelled.John'[sic] in those exact words but we know the implication. What we also know is that it was not some spirit ouyside[sic] John guiding him.
You've not presented any words that would cause one to conclude that Elijah indwelled John the Baptist.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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