Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Exploring the details of Christianity

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William
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Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #1

Post by William »

If Christianity is so important to the world, there is no information given to us by any of the writers of the Christian Gospels which would add to their personal witness regarding the effects of living as Jesus had commanded them to live or the things promised them they would achieve, re their connection with The Father.
There are no known records of such writings in existence.


OPQFD: Why did those who wrote the Gospels not write about their own experiences of their lives, in their lifetimes?

The only thing we have is the history of Christianity, which in itself is not so much an account of connection with The Father, but rather of worshiping an image of The Son.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #31

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to William in post #30]
Your rejection has been noted.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #32

Post by William »

2timothy316 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:32 am [Replying to William in post #30]
Your rejection has been noted.
Add this to your 'notes' [link]

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #33

Post by 2timothy316 »

William wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:04 am
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:32 am [Replying to William in post #30]
Your rejection has been noted.
Add this to your 'notes' [link]
LOL I noted that decades ago and moved on using the method you rejected. You're free to be stuck on such debates for a long as you like.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #34

Post by William »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #33]
[Replying to otseng in post #300]
When one establishes such relationship, one knows.

How do you think folk were achieving this before people started writing about it?
Well, people started writing about it a long time ago. And since I don't believe in deep time, it's only on the order of thousands of years that mankind has existed. So, it's not a long period of time that there was no writing.
Well, as convenient as your short-time belief is in relation to your belief that it is through the written word that relationship with The Mind is established - as I wrote earlier - I prefer to preface The Mind with Evidence and the idea that creation was done through the processes that Science has shown us.

In that I will add, The Father speaks through the living world as one way of communing with the individual person.

The Bible on the other hand, [in and of itself as an object] is not a living document.

Inviting a bee to land on my finger, and watching it do so, is a communion with the Living Mind of Creation which no book or movie could ever hope to replicate.

Understanding the awe inspiring creative process involved in the formation of Galaxies, is a communion with the Living Mind of Creation which no book or movie could ever hope to replicate.
Prior to the written record, it would be two things - direct revelation from God or oral tradition. Would there be a third method? If it's only these two, which of the two would apply in your case?
It can only be direct revelation from The Father. Oral tradition involves a third-party medium and appears to be primarily for those who cannot or will not establish for themselves a relationship of direct revelation.
There is no single methodology to arrive at truth, but a combination of many things - Biblical study, philosophy, math, science, history, arts, religion, and even mysticism.
One arrives at the truth when one establishes a direct relationship with The Mind and upon arrival, one then proceeds with their journey into all truth [mysticism].
Therein, there is no single item [Biblical study, philosophy, math, science, history, arts, religion etc] which cannot be useful in the continuing journey into all truth, but these are not singular methodologies in themselves which will help anyone actually establish a direct relationship with The Mind.

Problematic to Christianity is the belief that the bible alone IS equal to "Establishing and maintaining a relationship between the individual and The Father" but in realty such a belief is no more useful to that end, than seeking out a fortune-teller as a means of discovering next weeks lotto numbers, produces that result.
It is most obviously like that. And so too are those who believe it is authoritative as 'the word of god'. That is precisely why folk label it 'the word of god'. To give it an air of authority.
Well, I already covered in depth one case study with the attack on Jerusalem. Would you classify that as folklore?
That is not what I am arguing otseng.

It is my understanding [correct me if I am misunderstanding] that you do not consider the bible to be the word of The Father?
In that regard, the bible can be said to be a false idol, phesdo-performing a role of medium between a human being and a false image of The Creator.
What evidence and arguments backs up your claim?
I have already said.

Christianity claims the bible is the WOG. Therein they have their 'authority' re the bible.

It is Christianity which makes the claim, therefore it is up to Christians who believe in the claim to produce the evidence and argument to back up the claim.

The evidence I have is that no Christian has ever been able to back up that claim. They simply believe it on faith - through third-party processes - and won't budge from that position because it is non-negotiable.

I myself prefer a hands on living relationship with The Mind Behind Creation.

LOL I noted that decades ago and moved on using the method you rejected.
Please expand on your statement, because at present I don't see what it is you are laughing about.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #35

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to William in post #34]

Everything you present as your argument is old news. Considered that information and moved on years ago. I find it funny that people keep putting lipstick on that same ol' pig. Oh, it is a different color or shade of lipstick but the pig is same. The debate might be new to you, but to me it's a tired old conversation just presented in a different way.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #36

Post by William »

2timothy316 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:42 pm [Replying to William in post #34]

Everything you present as your argument is old news. Considered that information and moved on years ago. I find it funny that people keep putting lipstick on that same ol' pig. Oh, it is a different color or shade of lipstick but the pig is same. The debate might be new to you, but to me it's a tired old conversation just presented in a different way.
Are you presenting that as an opinion, or do you have supporting evidence?

I was unaware that the JWOrg host a debating forum and am currently under the impression the members of that organization hereabouts are Christian Opportunists, taking advantage of a Christian-based debate forum to promote and generally boast about their particular views on Christianity.
I understand that this in itself is not against any rules, but have yet to see any member of that organization publicly state that they have connection with The Mind Behind Creation [The Father] and do not require the bible as a means or medium necessary to accomplish that.

Because that is my argument, and if you have been there and done that, it appears to me that you are saying that you rejected the notion that one does not require the bible as a means or medium necessary to accomplish connection with The Mind Behind Creation, something I find questionable, rather than a pig I am trying to dress up to look like a woman.

The [lipstick/pig] expression itself is somewhat vulgar to me and something I wouldn't expect from someone claiming to have relationship with The Father, using it in argument against another.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #37

Post by 2timothy316 »

William wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:15 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:42 pm [Replying to William in post #34]

Everything you present as your argument is old news. Considered that information and moved on years ago. I find it funny that people keep putting lipstick on that same ol' pig. Oh, it is a different color or shade of lipstick but the pig is same. The debate might be new to you, but to me it's a tired old conversation just presented in a different way.
Are you presenting that as an opinion, or do you have supporting evidence?
I do but you have rejected the way to get it for yourself. You keep relying on others to give you evidence and I keep telling you will never get evidence that way. Its like you keep asking me and others to talk you over to the other side of an ocean. We tell you that you will need a boat and you will need to learn who to sail that boat. Yet you say, 'Nope, I will not do it.' Well, then you have no other choice to be to stand on the beach repeating 'show me, show me' asking for something that can't be done.

Another example: It is like me eating a meal and you expecting me to be able to give you the nutritional benefits. It's not possible.
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #38

Post by William »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #37]

All I have rejected is worship of an idol as adviced by a member of the JWOrg because I am currently under the impression the members of that organization hereabouts are Christian Opportunists, taking advantage of a Christian-based debate forum to promote and generally boast about their particular views on Christianity.
I understand that this in itself is not against any rules, but have yet to see any member of that organization publicly state that they have connection with The Mind Behind Creation [The Father] and do not require the bible as a means or medium necessary to accomplish that.

I am not interested in worshiping the bible. If that is rejecting your offer, then it is legitimate reason for doing so.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #39

Post by 2timothy316 »

William wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:23 pm
I am not interested in worshiping the bible. If that is rejecting your offer, then it is legitimate reason for doing so.
As I said. If you have no interest in learning and following the Bible then it's like your asking me to eat a meal for you to make you feel full and then give you the nutritional benefits. It's impossible. Because you have no experience of following the Bible correctly you have nothing of interest for me to hear. It's like I ate a meal and now you're trying to tell me what I experienced in that meal. But that's impossible for you to know because you have never eaten the meal I have had. This whole 'the Bible is an idol' stuff is just an excuse not to do what it says. Another pig in lipstick argument. The pig being: don't follow the Bible. The lipstick being a reason why not to follow it: 'the Bible is an idol'. :roll:
There is not enough lipstick in the world to hide what the pig is and I think I've seen just about all of the colors of lipstick.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #40

Post by onewithhim »

William wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:23 pm [Replying to 2timothy316 in post #37]

All I have rejected is worship of an idol as adviced by a member of the JWOrg because I am currently under the impression the members of that organization hereabouts are Christian Opportunists, taking advantage of a Christian-based debate forum to promote and generally boast about their particular views on Christianity.
JWs are not boasting about our views on Christianity. We come here to give people information so that they can get on the road that leads to life. (Matthew 7:13,14) We want as many as possible to have a better life now and also be with us in Paradise.

.

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