Important Information Lost? Withheld?

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William
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Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #1

Post by William »

If Christianity is so important to the world, there is no information given to us by any of the writers of the Christian Gospels which would add to their personal witness regarding the effects of living as Jesus had commanded them to live or the things promised them they would achieve, re their connection with The Father.
There are no known records of such writings in existence.


OPQFD: Why did those who wrote the Gospels not write about their own experiences of their lives, in their lifetimes?

The only thing we have is the history of Christianity, which in itself is not so much an account of connection with The Father, but rather of worshiping an image of The Son.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #21

Post by 2timothy316 »

William wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:09 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:01 pm
William wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:31 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:21 pm
William wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:57 pm
AS to;

Hebrews Script
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


Plainly that is not claiming the bible is the Word Of God [WOG] so is not evidence which can be used to support the argument that the bible is a Living Document.

It is not a living document. IT has not been a living document since the day it was official sealed and given the title of the WOG.

And no book is that 'living' the it can discern the thoughts and intents of a human being.

The claim, quite frankly - appears ridiculous.

Yet - I am open to hearing your arguments and seeing your supporting evidence that the bible can do these things.

Meantime, I will assume that the Hebrews author was referring to something else entirely.
Do you have something more than just your opinion to prove your claim that Hebrews 4:12 isn't true? What references do you have to support your claim? You just saying so isn't enough.
I am not arguing that that The Hebrews Author is telling lies. My argument is that the author isn't talking about the bible. Christians are claiming that it is speaking of the bible.

Talking about legends myths and swords, I found this interesting;

Archaeologists found the true Excalibur sword stuck in a stone in a Bosnian river
Well, I have no idea what else Paul would be talking about. In my life I have examined many books and people that claim they can do what Heb 4:12 is talking about. The Bible is the only one that I have studied and implemented in my life that has met what Heb 4:12 says. Just mentioning the Bible to many on this forum and I can discern the thoughts and intentions of people the by way they reply to post that have scripture in them.
Well, I have no idea what else Paul would be talking about.
That much is obvious. Even so, that is no rational reason as to why you or any other Christian would claim that he is talking about the bible.
Actually there is, 1 Thess 2:13. Paul says that people hear God's Word from him and others. John, Peter, Luke, etc. Paul says the decrees he and the others wrote in letter form are not their words. Those letters were put into the Bible.
In my life I have examined many books and people that claim they can do what Heb 4:12 is talking about.
It doesn't matter because there is no way any book CAN do what the author of Hebrews is claiming, so the author MUST be talking about something else.
he Bible is the only one that I have studied and implemented in my life that has met what Heb 4:12 says.
There is absolutely no way anyone could provide evidence to support the claim that the bible or any other book is alive and can therefore discern the thoughts and feelings etc of a Human Being.
Yes there is. Heb 4:12 happens for me every day because I read it daily and live by what it says. I can no more prove this to anyone then I could prove to a person that fishing is fun to a person that has never gone fishing. The Bible must be lived through and not just read through.
Just mentioning the Bible to many on this forum and I can discern the thoughts and intentions of people the by way they reply to post that have scripture in them.
That is you doing the discerning, not the bible. Even in that, it has never been established that your discernment abilities are capable of making the correct assessments, so as an argument, it has little to no actual value. AS an opinion, even less.
If the Bible wasn't around there would be nothing for one to react to. Just by me quoting one scripture look how much it's got you talking. Even as you read these scriptures it's got you testing yourself and reasserting to yourself and me on what you believe.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #22

Post by Tcg »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:25 pm
Actually there is, 1 Thess 2:13. Paul says that people hear God's Word from him and others. John, Peter, Luke, etc. Paul says the decrees he and the others wrote in letter form are not their words. Those letters were put into the Bible.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 states this:
13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.
The "we" Paul is referring to is made clear in 1 Thessalonians 1:1:
Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,

To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace.
There is no mention of John, Peter, Luke or anyone else other than the three from 1:1.

Additionally, there is no mention of a written word in 2:13, but rather oral. Note the phrase: "which you heard from us." The passage you are using to support your point does not teach what you are suggesting.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #23

Post by William »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #21]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #21]
Even so, that is no rational reason as to why you or any other Christian would claim that he is talking about the bible.
Actually there is, 1 Thess 2:13. Paul says that people hear God's Word from him and others. John, Peter, Luke, etc. Paul says the decrees he and the others wrote in letter form are not their words. Those letters were put into the Bible.
That is not a rational reason. Most things which are The Fathers Words have never been put in the bible. Therefore the bible is not able to be seen along the lines as Christians claim.

If Christians claimed that the bible was one place where words from The Father could be found, that would be different from the claim that it is the WOG.
There is absolutely no way anyone could provide evidence to support the claim that the bible or any other book is alive and can therefore discern the thoughts and feelings etc of a Human Being.
Yes there is. Heb 4:12 happens for me every day because I read it daily and live by what it says.
AS I have already argued, that does not make the bible a living document. You are describing the antics of one who is worshiping a false image of something. You are confusing that with thinking the bible is actually a living object/entity. There is no easy way to say this, other than to point out what is actually going on re your relationship with this book.
If the Bible wasn't around there would be nothing for one to react to.
That argument looks like a fabrication. It is like stating that without the bible, nature wouldn't exist.
Just by me quoting one scripture look how much it's got you talking. Even as you read these scriptures it's got you testing yourself and reasserting to yourself and me on what you believe.
It is not about my beliefs. I am arguing facts not beliefs.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #24

Post by 2timothy316 »

Tcg wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:46 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:25 pm
Actually there is, 1 Thess 2:13. Paul says that people hear God's Word from him and others. John, Peter, Luke, etc. Paul says the decrees he and the others wrote in letter form are not their words. Those letters were put into the Bible.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 states this:
13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.
The "we" Paul is referring to is made clear in 1 Thessalonians 1:1:
Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,

To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace.
There is no mention of John, Peter, Luke or anyone else other than the three from 1:1.

Additionally, there is no mention of a written word in 2:13, but rather oral. Note the phrase: "which you heard from us." The passage you are using to support your point does not teach what you are suggesting.


Tcg
Actually it would cover anything considered to be scripture or scared writings. The Law Code (The Bible Of Jesus day) would be considered as from God. (Luke 24:27) Anything which was written down by means of the helper or Holy Spirit would be considered scripture. (John 15:26) They 'heard' because the letters were read aloud to the whole congregation as was the custom for all scripture. (Luke 4:16-19) You do know why the books in the Greek Scriptures have the names they do right?
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #25

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to William in post #23]

Again, I can't give a person the love of fishing that has never gone fishing.

I can't give a person faith in the Bible that they have never lived by what it says.

All of your assertions are from a place of not knowing by not doing. You're saying all the things I'd expect from a person that has never lived their life completely as the Bible says to do.

Until you have lived according the commands that are set forth in the Bible and let the blessings of following those commands, you have nothing useful for me to consider and proving anything to you through words or my actions will be impossible.

If you'd like to get started I know the 3 commandments were you can start. But if you don't start, then you will never be able to find the answers you keep asking for. The Bible will stay dead to you. So do you have interest in testing this out?

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #26

Post by William »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:46 pm [Replying to William in post #23]

Again, I can't give a person the love of fishing that has never gone fishing.

I can't give a person faith in the Bible that they have never lived by what it says.

All of your assertions are from a place of not knowing by not doing. You're saying all the things I'd expect from a person that has never lived their life completely as the Bible says to do.

Until you have lived according the commands that are set forth in the Bible and let the blessings of following those commands, you have nothing useful for me to consider and proving anything to you through words or my actions will be impossible.

If you'd like to get started I know the 3 commandments were you can start. But if you don't start, then you will never be able to find the answers you keep asking for. The Bible will stay dead to you. So do you have interest in testing this out?
There is no way which I want to learn how to worship the bible.

I have my relationship with The Mind Behind Creation [aka The Father] and the formation of that relationship did not have anything to do with worshiping the bible as a living entity/the WOG.

Take your wares elsewhere. I am not buying them.

Related to this;

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #27

Post by 2timothy316 »

William wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:30 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:46 pm [Replying to William in post #23]

Again, I can't give a person the love of fishing that has never gone fishing.

I can't give a person faith in the Bible that they have never lived by what it says.

All of your assertions are from a place of not knowing by not doing. You're saying all the things I'd expect from a person that has never lived their life completely as the Bible says to do.

Until you have lived according the commands that are set forth in the Bible and let the blessings of following those commands, you have nothing useful for me to consider and proving anything to you through words or my actions will be impossible.

If you'd like to get started I know the 3 commandments were you can start. But if you don't start, then you will never be able to find the answers you keep asking for. The Bible will stay dead to you. So do you have interest in testing this out?
There is no way which I want to learn how to worship the bible.

I have my relationship with The Mind Behind Creation [aka The Father] and the formation of that relationship did not have anything to do with worshiping the bible as a living entity/the WOG.

Take your wares elsewhere. I am not buying them.

Related to this;
The gift of the Bible is free. So your money is not good for buying anything. Also, they are not MY wares. They are the wares of Jehovah God. So you're not rejecting me, and you don't answer to me. Yet the Bible is exposing your thoughts and intentions with every reply you make against it. Let the record show that I showed you what to do get your answers and your reply was, "There is no way which I want to learn how to worship the bible." So be it. You will therefore never understand why people believe the Bible is the Word of God and I can 100% guarantee you never will.

Also, you will find not other proof other than living as the Bible commands. So all your threads and post asking for understanding why a person believes the Bible as the Word of God are pointless because you refused the only way to find out.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #28

Post by William »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #27]
The gift of the Bible is free.
Search Bible - best seller:

The Bible is the best-selling book of all time, having sold around 5 billion copies to date.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #29

Post by 2timothy316 »

William wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:30 pm [Replying to 2timothy316 in post #27]
The gift of the Bible is free.
Search Bible - best seller:

The Bible is the best-selling book of all time, having sold around 5 billion copies to date.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not charge for their Bibles. I have given away many Bibles at no cost. The Bibles I have were given to me at no cost. You can to www.jw.org and read the Bible for free. You can even go to other websites like www.biblehub.com and read dozens of translations of the Bible for free.

I have shown you the way to have your proof. But it will take action on your part. Actions you have declined to take. So you can blame no one but yourself for not having the answers you seek. You'll never find answers to your questions as to why people still trust the Bible despite all the things you have brought up through debating someone on the internet. Like a pair of binoculars, if you just lay them on the table and look at them they do nothing for you. They only provide useful information when you look through them.

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Re: Important Information Lost? Withheld?

Post #30

Post by William »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #29]

Search The expression "I don't buy it"
Meaning/Usage: Disagree; to not be convinced. Explanation: This phrase comes from a popular way of getting agreement, which is "buy in." For example, a company director can say, "we need buy in from all the board members to proceed." In this statement, "buy in" is getting agreement.


There is no way which I want to learn how to worship the bible.

I have my relationship with The Mind Behind Creation [aka The Father] and the formation of that relationship did not have anything to do with worshiping the bible as a living entity/the WOG.

Take your wares elsewhere. I am not buying them.

Related to this;

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