Not Needed By God

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William
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Not Needed By God

Post #1

Post by William »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:02 am
William wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:55 pm

The very idea that יהוה doesn't need assistance flies in the face of all the biblical stories told. Surely you are misrepresenting יהוה in that regard.
There are no biblical stories where God has "needed assistance" he needs noone to accomplish his purpose.

The fact that He has condescended to allow humans to play a part therein does not equates to his being unable to achieved what he wants without them. The bible repeatedly refers to Jehovah as the Almighty, so logically being all powerful an omnipotent God has no need of extra input to do what he wants. If Jehovah delegates its an expression of his love and mercy as the righteous view it as a privilege to be used by God.
QFB Is the idea that an almighty being can do everything without the assistance of anything, logically sound?



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Re: Not Needed By God

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Post by William »

I do not think so.

The argument as presented, is that the biblical god [BG] condescends to create humans and have them do things but doesn't need to do so, because he is omnipotent and could do these things without human assistance.

How is that logically sound, when the very act of having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority requires [in this case] human beings, in order to have something to condescend to?

How can an almighty being condescend without the necessity of first creating something that it can be condescending toward?

Is the illogical reasoning simply a matter of an individuals own attitude toward human beings, projected onto the image of the BJ?

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Re: Not Needed By God

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Post by myth-one.com »

The argument as presented, is that the biblical god [BG] condescends to create humans and have them do things but doesn't need to do so, because he is omnipotent and could do these things without human assistance.
That is a false premise.

You claim that God is omnipotent.

Omnipotent: having unlimited power; able to do anything.

But there are many things which God cannot do.

Another characteristic of God is omniscience. That is, God is all knowing.

Man can be ignorant of something. God cannot. That is one thing God cannot do.

Another generally accepted characteristic of God is that He is immortal [incapable of dying].

Being immortal, God cannot die as humans can.

There are many things which humans can do that BG cannot do.

The scriptures confirm that God cannot do all things:
Titus 1:2 wrote:In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
So God cannot do all the things that mankind can do.

If He could, then there would have been no reason to create mankind.

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Re: Not Needed By God

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Post by William »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #3]
You claim that God is omnipotent.
It is not my claim. I quoted a Christian claiming that.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #5

Post by William »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #3]

Please tie your statements in with the QFD:
QFD Is the idea that an almighty being can do everything without the assistance of anything, logically sound?

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #6

Post by Miles »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:09 pm
The argument as presented, is that the biblical god [BG] condescends to create humans and have them do things but doesn't need to do so, because he is omnipotent and could do these things without human assistance.
That is a false premise.

You claim that God is omnipotent.
Because of the contradictory nature of an unqualified, full-blown omni-power, many theologians now consider god's omni-powers to be "logically omni (non-contradictory)." Meaning it would exclude god's power to make a burrito too hot for him to eat.


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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #7

Post by William »

[Replying to Miles in post #6]
it would exclude god's power to make a burrito too hot for him to eat.
That would also contradict the christian quoted in the OP. The BG apparently doesn't need anything [including burrito] because "Jehovah as the Almighty, so logically being all powerful an omnipotent God has no need of extra input to do what he wants. ".

Apparently he can do that, without the burrito...and apparently that is logically possible...at least according to that christian's argument.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #8

Post by myth-one.com »

William wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:42 am
QFB Is the idea that an almighty being can do everything without the assistance of anything, logically sound?


Absolutely, by definition of almighty!


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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #9

Post by William »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #8]
1. (of God) having the power to do everything:
Can any being be almighty without something to be almighty over? That is the subject.
Man can be ignorant of something. God cannot. That is one thing God cannot do
I am positive that if an almighty being put its mind to it, it could indeed find a way in which to experience being ignorant.

Otherwise such a being wouldn't be almighty in the first place.

An Almighty being cannot do everything without the assistance of anything. It cannot make laws for humans if there were first no humans to make laws for.




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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #10

Post by myth-one.com »

William wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:43 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #8]
1. (of God) having the power to do everything:
Can any being be almighty without something to be almighty over? That is the subject.
That's the easy case!

Any single living being would be almighty over nothing. There would be nothing which was not under its control. He, she, or it would definitely be all powerful.
Myth-one.com wrote:Man can be ignorant of something. God cannot. That is one thing God cannot do.
William wrote:I am positive that if an almighty being put its mind to it, it could indeed find a way in which to experience being ignorant.
Not if that almighty being was also "restricted" by being all knowing, like God. If God knows everything, then there is nothing that God can be ignorant of.

God is a spiritual being and mankind is a physical human being. God cannot do several of the things which man can do. He cannot die, so He is stuck with everlasting life. He cannot lie, so He is stuck with honesty.
William wrote:An Almighty being cannot do everything without the assistance of anything. It cannot make laws for humans if there were first no humans to make laws for.
Why not?

God gave some thought to what mankind would have dominion over prior to their creation:
Genesis 1:26 wrote:And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

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