Not Needed By God

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William
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Not Needed By God

Post #1

Post by William »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:02 am
William wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:55 pm

The very idea that יהוה doesn't need assistance flies in the face of all the biblical stories told. Surely you are misrepresenting יהוה in that regard.
There are no biblical stories where God has "needed assistance" he needs noone to accomplish his purpose.

The fact that He has condescended to allow humans to play a part therein does not equates to his being unable to achieved what he wants without them. The bible repeatedly refers to Jehovah as the Almighty, so logically being all powerful an omnipotent God has no need of extra input to do what he wants. If Jehovah delegates its an expression of his love and mercy as the righteous view it as a privilege to be used by God.
QFB Is the idea that an almighty being can do everything without the assistance of anything, logically sound?



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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #91

Post by 2timothy316 »

William wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:25 pm
He doesn't need anyone else's power to get anything done.
Why then do other things exist with their own power to do things?
That's the way He wanted it. There is no reason needed. It's His will so that's that.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #92

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

William wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:15 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #76]
Jehovah wanted very much to have a relationship with humans, as anyone can see who reads through the entire Bible.
This is what I am arguing. The BG as an AME cannot have these things without these things. That being the case, it is misdirection to state that there are no biblical stories where Jehovah has needed assistance as he needs no one to accomplish his purpose.
The purpose, encapsulated story of the Law and the prophets, the Old Testament, is the establishment of the "kingdom". The kingdom to come (Matthew 6:10), is the establishment of a reunification of Judah and Ephraim, on the land given Jacob, with David as king, and them being the sanctuary/temple of God (Ezekiel 36 & 37), forever. This requires men to fulfill the purpose of the kingdom. He doesn't need assistance in creating or destroying men, although he apparently uses angels (Matthew 13:39) to gather the "tares" and throw them into the furnace of fire. He uses, prophets to meet his ends, as well as the kings of Daniel, to bring judgment upon Israel (Judah & Ephraim) (Hosea 5). He really doesn't require men to destroy other men, such as with the flood, but he clearly used Babylon, Greece, and Rome to crush His people Israel for their wickedness.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #93

Post by William »

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #92]

So clearly while choosing other things in which to get things done the BG as an AME has to be seen not to be an AME in order for this to occur in relation to other things.

So the AME cannot do this without first doing that, which is what the QFD is asking.
"Is the idea that an almighty being can do everything without the assistance of anything, logically sound?"

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #94

Post by William »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #91]
He doesn't need anyone else's power to get anything done.
Why then do other things exist with their own power to do things?
That's the way He wanted it. There is no reason needed. It's His will so that's that.
Q: Can an AME create you without first getting your permission to create you?

Answer:1: According to the definition of Almighty, yes. No explanation as to 'how this would be possible to do' is given because the argument is "It's His will so that's that," rather than the honest reason that one simply cannot explain the logically impossible.

Answer:2: According to logic, no, an AME cannot create you without first getting your permission to create you, because in order to get your permission to create you, it first has to create you.

Therefore the definition of almighty is either incorrect, or there is no such thing as an almighty entity.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #95

Post by William »

"Is the idea that an almighty being can do everything without the assistance of anything, logically sound?"
No. Because every thing excludes no thing and any thing is some thing.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #96

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #76]
Why would God create people that could not make sense out of Him and what He is like?
A good question. Perhaps asking god would net the best answer as I'd like to know as well?
Unless, of course, humanity is on par with god. In that case, it's a none issue
that is not reasonable.
So it would seem. But there's a lot of things in the bible that's not reasonable that people accept by faith. Pick your poison.
He created Adam perfect, with perfect faculties, and was "in God's image" having the attributes of love, power, wisdom and justice.
While some christians may say that's debatable, it would make sense. But then, god allow satan to come and through a monkey wrench into the whole thing. Then gets upset about it and throws the guys out, and on and on and on. Unreasonable.
Yet accepted by believers.

Jehovah wanted very much to have a relationship with humans, as anyone can see who reads through the entire Bible.
Some would say. The bible is also full of god killing people and animals because it gets a bee in its bonnet.
Unreasonable.
Yet accepted by believers.
Adam rebelled and sin and death were introduced into the world, but we still have the capabilities to understand basic things about our Creator.
If you consider what some long dead man said about god, then sure. But it's ALL opinion. Everything written about god in the bible is opinion, edited and translated over and over again (let's not forget the books written about god that some men thought weren't 'of god' and thus, not including in the modern bible; Oh and the other works of other 'christians' claiming to be 'of god' like mormons and JWs seem to have). If you're OK with that, great! Just know not everyone falls in line with that way of thinking.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #97

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to William in post #94]

You're looking for logic where there is none.

Why does anyone create anything? There's no logical reason why a person paints a picture. They do it because they wanted to or because they love to paint.
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #98

Post by William »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #97]
"Is the idea that an almighty being can do everything without the assistance of anything, logically sound?"
You're looking for logic where there is none.
Indeed. The idea is not logically sound. The claim the Christian made, is shown to be bogus.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #99

Post by nobspeople »

2timothy316 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:04 am [Replying to William in post #94]


There's no logical why a person paints a picture. They do it because they wanted to or because they love to paint.
Only if the painter in question hates to paint or doesn't want to paint the picture. Otherwise, if a person loves to paint and wants to paint, and paints, it's very logical that they do so.
This simply means logic is in the details and needs to be looked for. Over generalizations over logic aren't accurate.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #100

Post by 2timothy316 »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:41 am
2timothy316 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:04 am [Replying to William in post #94]


There's no logical why a person paints a picture. They do it because they wanted to or because they love to paint.
Only if the painter in question hates to paint or doesn't want to paint the picture. Otherwise, if a person loves to paint and wants to paint, and paints, it's very logical that they do so.
This simply means logic is in the details and needs to be looked for. Over generalizations over logic aren't accurate.
So, isn't it logical to conclude that Almighty God made created us because He loves to create or something like that and to look for something beyond that logic is illogical?

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