Why not just Jesus?

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Why not just Jesus?

Post #1

Post by Veridican »

Do you ever wonder why, if we are Christians, we don't just follow the Gospels? Like, they would be our only canon of scripture, everything else would just be for historical reference, wisdom, or good advice, but we would be followers of Jesus ONLY. He would be our only teacher. Our canon then would be Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Revelation. Why has there never even been a cult, or church, or denomination like that in all of history? :?:
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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #71

Post by tam »

[Replying to Avoice in post #70]

[The Lord] your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.


That is from Deuteronomy 18. Joshua is not mentioned there. So that could be referring to anyone whom God raises up, puts His words in their mouth. Such as He did with His Chosen One (the Messiah), who spoke just as His Father commanded Him, and to whom God said to listen.


And again,

And CERTAINLY the people were to listen to the Messiah when He came, yes? Do you think Moses or any other prophet ever claimed otherwise? You may not accept that Jah'eshua (which would be translated closer to Joshua in English) is the Messiah, but you cannot possibly be suggesting that we're not supposed to listen to the Messiah?



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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #72

Post by otseng »

Avoice wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:43 amHow can you read this and ignore it. But you do. Rolling my eyes.
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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #73

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Veridican in post #1]
Because the Hebrew Scriptures (O.T.) are very important. First of all, they tell us exactly who God really is, and there might be a question about that if only the Gospels and Revelation were studied. The Hebrew Scriptures show us who is the Most High and how He relates to His Son, whom He anointed to come to Earth and atone for humanity, as well as giving succor to us. (Isaiah 61:1,2; see Luke 4:17-21)

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #74

Post by onewithhim »

Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:39 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:49 pm
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:38 pm
The true religion is Veridicanism. It is indisputably the true religion--if you believe at all in the Divinity of Jesus Christ, that is. And if you don't, you're going to perish at death, anyway--assuming you don't end up in hell first. If you are not a Veridican, you might as well be an atheist.
This is the kind of thing that will get you banned. As a person that claims to follow Christ Jesus you must surely know to, “Stop condemning, and you will by no means be condemned.”* (Luke 6:37)
But it's a fact. And I know I'm going to get banned. And I will not back off. I mean, I won't sit here and preach it, but if I'm challenged, I will not back off. All for Christ and only Christ! :joy:
But what about Christ's Father (Jehovah) whom he loved? Wouldn't Christ want you to love and obey Him? Please read the 17th chapter of John and you'll see how much Jesus loved and acquiesced to his Father. Should we ignore that? Wouldn't we want to share in his happiness at going back to heaven to be with his Father whom he called his God? (John 20:17)

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #75

Post by Veridican »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:15 pm [Replying to Veridican in post #1]
Because the Hebrew Scriptures (O.T.) are very important. First of all, they tell us exactly who God really is, and there might be a question about that if only the Gospels and Revelation were studied. The Hebrew Scriptures show us who is the Most High and how He relates to His Son, whom He anointed to come to Earth and atone for humanity, as well as giving succor to us. (Isaiah 61:1,2; see Luke 4:17-21)
No, you're absolutely right. And I believe we need the Bible in order to have historical context and even the wisdom of people who wrote the letters of the NT and the Psalms, and like for instance, Genesis. It's a context for discussing the creation itself. I get all that.

But Jesus must be our only teacher. We can't equate the teachings of Paul with the teachings of Jesus. We can't say that Paul's letters are on the same level as the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. We can't follow the Old Testament relationship God had with humanity now that Christ has come and is our atonement. We have a new covenant through Jesus Christ, a new Way to God. A new relationship.

But I'm not casting out the Bible. I study the Bible all the time. But when it comes down to it. My "canon" is the life and teachings of my only teacher, Jesus Christ.

It's a decision we have to make: either we follow ONLY Jesus Christ, which is all he would accept, or we practice some kind of hybrid Judeo-Christian-Apostolic religion that just won't cut it. It won't bring rebirth and it won't make one Christ. That's where I'm coming from, anyway.
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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #76

Post by Veridican »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:26 pm
But what about Christ's Father (Jehovah) whom he loved? Wouldn't Christ want you to love and obey Him? Please read the 17th chapter of John and you'll see how much Jesus loved and acquiesced to his Father. Should we ignore that? Wouldn't we want to share in his happiness at going back to heaven to be with his Father whom he called his God? (John 20:17)
I know the passage very well. And I know you know this: We don't go to God directly. Trust me, I tried that in the occult. God is there--but God without Jesus Christ is not something meant for human beings. When we become Christ (or if you prefer, when we become the same substance as Christ) then we can have a relationship with God. But without Christ God is a vague spiritual force or an academic philosophical subject to us human beings. That's my belief. That's Veridicanism.
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cms

Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #77

Post by cms »

tam wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:06 pm [The Lord] your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.
There are true prophets and false prophets. So, a prophet like Moses would be someone who speaks the same words and acts accordingly. If the law that claims to have come from Moses is true, then no, Jesus and Moses were not one voice. However, the transfiguration on the Mount suggests otherwise, as
Jesus became one with the spirits of Moses and Elijah. This leads me to believe that many were speaking and writing false things in the name of Moses.

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #78

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Veridican wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:56 pm ...I believe we need the Bible in order to have historical context and even the wisdom of people who wrote the letters of the NT and the Psalms, and like for instance, Genesis. It's a context for discussing the creation itself. I get all that.

But Jesus must be our only teacher. We can't equate the teachings of Paul with the teachings of Jesus. We can't say that Paul's letters are on the same level as the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. We can't follow the Old Testament relationship God had with humanity now that Christ has come and is our atonement.
So would it be fair to say you do not believe the "Old Testament" is the inspired written word of God ? Neither do you accept the books of the 27 books in the Christian canon as such.


You know that Jesus is not recorded as leaving any writings, so what you are calling "the teachings of Christ" are essentially the written work of "Matthew Mark Luke and John" men who you trust to have written accurately what they witnesses or learnt to be true.
Why do you trust gospel writers to have recorded information of divine origin but no others that came before or after ? Of Moses it is written he spoke to God face to face, the writer of Luke only claimed to have gathered information from others. Daniel wrote he spoke to Gabriel with a message from God Almighty, John wrote what he claimed to hear from the Messiah.
Is it a case of : Daniels wrote and you say "That's interesting, but your writings must be taken as the penmanship of man" ? but "John" writes and that is divine ? They are both humans writing on paper, so whats the difference?



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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #79

Post by Veridican »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:25 am JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
I only call one thing the Word of God, and that's Jesus Christ. I don't think I need to tell you that or quote the verses on that. I know you know them. I will never call this book sitting here on my desk, which is one of many I have, the "Word of God."

That said, Veridicans canonize the following books. That means we consider them the scriptures that God intends for us to use in our religion: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Revelation, Thomas, and the Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ. That's it. Those are for us (Veridicans) because we follow ONLY the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. So, it's not hard to understand, and in fact, it's quite logical--if you actually believe that Jesus is your only teacher.

The authorship of the books is irrelevant. The NT Gospels and Revelation are utterly anonymous at any rate, and for good reason. An anonymous document over time loses the interference of the author. Thus, we do not qualify or denigrate, or establish the authority of the Gospels because of who wrote them. Rather, they are prima facie. They are exactly as we find them, and if one reads them, and if God touches their mind, they will have a revelation of Jesus Christ from them. Because they are anonymous, the Holy Spirit becomes the author. In that sense, the Gospels, as opposed to any other books in the Bible are miraculous documents. So much so, in fact, that one can deduce the entire purpose of the Catholic Church was simply to preserve the Gospel record--and that they did.
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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #80

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
cms wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:56 pm This leads me to believe that many were speaking and writing false things in the name of Moses.
That makes sense yes, even if it is just a matter of the scribes writing/copying/translating in error. Jeremiah even speaks of the lying pen of the scribes that handled the law falsely. (Jeremiah 8:8)


Remember also that Moses gave some commands - not because they were true from the beginning - but because the hearts of the people were hard. So just because Moses made an allowance for the people in some occasions doesn't mean that this allowance is what was true from the beginning. On the other hand, Christ tells us what is true, even if it is hard for people to accept or to hear.

Such as the law on divorce:

“Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of your hardness of heart; but it was not this way from the beginning. 9Now I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman, commits adultery.”


He corrected other things as well,

"You have heard it said, but I tell you now..."



Christ is the One who speaks ONLY truth, the One who leads His sheep into ALL truth.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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