Why not just Jesus?

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Why not just Jesus?

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Post by Veridican »

Do you ever wonder why, if we are Christians, we don't just follow the Gospels? Like, they would be our only canon of scripture, everything else would just be for historical reference, wisdom, or good advice, but we would be followers of Jesus ONLY. He would be our only teacher. Our canon then would be Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Revelation. Why has there never even been a cult, or church, or denomination like that in all of history? :?:
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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #31

Post by 2timothy316 »

Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:39 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:49 pm
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:38 pm
The true religion is Veridicanism. It is indisputably the true religion--if you believe at all in the Divinity of Jesus Christ, that is. And if you don't, you're going to perish at death, anyway--assuming you don't end up in hell first. If you are not a Veridican, you might as well be an atheist.
This is the kind of thing that will get you banned. As a person that claims to follow Christ Jesus you must surely know to, “Stop condemning, and you will by no means be condemned.”* (Luke 6:37)
But it's a fact. And I know I'm going to get banned. And I will not back off. I mean, I won't sit here and preach it, but if I'm challenged, I will not back off. All for Christ and only Christ! :joy:
So Jesus' words to 'stop condemning' holds no weight? When you condemn others then you should expect others to judge you the same. That is why you'll be banned. Not for your faith but for ignoring Jesus' words.
You do know what it means when you say you stand for something but then do the exact opposite right? That's called being hypocritical.

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #32

Post by Veridican »

2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:10 pm So Jesus' words to 'stop condemning' holds no weight? When you condemn others then you should expect others to judge you the same. That is why you'll be banned. Not for your faith but for ignoring Jesus' words.
You do know what it means when you say you stand for something but then do the exact opposite right? That's called being hypocritical.
I'm not the one condemning. I'm just stating facts. I'm just describing the lay of the land. :yes:
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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #33

Post by Difflugia »

Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pm
I did after your initial post. They're interesting, but I don't think they're quite as novel as you think they are, let alone unique. They're not orthodox, certainly, but you're hardly the first person to think that Paul wasn't inspired or that God communicates with them privately, even just within these forums.
None of that's even part of the Articles of Faith. So... You didn't read them.
If I didn't think they came from your own pen, I'd ask if you read them:
VII. The Canon

The Veridican Church recognizes the following texts as our canon of scripture: The Gospel of Matthew, The Gospel of Mark, The Gospel of Luke, The Gospel of John, and the book of Revelation (King James Version of 1611, and the New International Version, 1984 ed.), The Gospel of Thomas (Meyer and Bloom, 1992 ed.), and The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ (Gordon, 2012 ed.).
You've excluded Paul. I took that to mean that you don't think his writings were inspired.
X. Eschatology

It has been revealed to us by God that mRNA vaccines fulfill the prophecy of John in Revelation 9:13-19. We hold that they are a weapon of the antichrist intended to destroy a significant portion of humanity which will allow the antichrist to come to power.
Considering that you earlier claimed to have been personally informed by the Holy Spirit that the 1984 NIV is the specific Bible to use, I interpreted this divine revelation as something similar. Was I wrong?
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pmWe also practice a type of Veridican astrology, and we are adamantly opposed to mRNA vaccines. We also believe that people become Christ when they are born again. So, it may not be unique to you, but there's never been a Christian sect like this before in Church history.
That would wholly depend on how narrowly you mean "like this." While I'm sure you could construct some definition of yourselves that no other sect has used exactly, mystic varieties of Christianity are a dime a dozen and even orthodox sects metaphorically claim to "become Christ" through some devotional exercise or other. If you meant something more literal to the point of making you "unique," it wasn't apparent.

If you think that science denial and being antivax makes you unique among Christianities, I'd have to ask where you've been for the last 50 years, let alone just since COVID-19.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pmI mean that the definition of the word Veridican proves that we are the true religion. But, I may be using prima facie incorrectly--or stretching it.
I can call myself anything I want, but that alone doesn't prove it or cause anyone else to assume that it's true. Merely asserting something, even by way of a self-assigned title, isn't evidence that it's true.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pmI hope you're right. My experience since 1994 has proven otherwise, but I hope you're right.
If you'll indulge a bit of speculation on my part, it might be that chip on your shoulder that gets you banned more often than any heterodoxy.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pm
I'm atheist
Really? Veridicans have a unique argument for the existence of God. It does have an ontological flavor. It's indisputable. I used to debate atheists for years and years. I actually invented another argument, only later did I realize the George Berkeley beat me to it in the early 1700's. But, the Veridican Argument for the Existence of God is indisputable. I can also prove consciousness does not generate from the brain, and that Jesus Christ existed for a fact.
Color me skeptical, but I look forward to seeing it.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pmBut, I haven't debated atheists in a long time. It changed on me. They stopped wanting to debate in the classic sense, and now all they are is leftist/communist/anarchist/woke/social-justice...individuals. I always got banned from their groups. Imagine that, not for being rude, just because I wouldn't back down. I think it says something to be universally banned by atheists and Christians. It's like the one common enemy they have is me. Ha! :lol:
Everyone crosses paths with an unpleasant person occasionally, but if one finds themselves beset by jerks all the time, the other people might not be the problem.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pmI don't have to support it. It's a fact. You may not be into Church history, but I am, and there hasn't been.
As luck would have it, I am. That's why I doubt it. Especially since you think asserting such without any evidence is sufficient to establish its truth.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pmWhy bother? I'm boring, and there's nothing there for you.
You came to the debate forum yourself, remember? If you don't want to engage in the local entertainment, it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy that you won't be very entertaining.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pmYou are an atheist, right? I know you think you don't believe in God. It's actually the other way around. Sad, really. Nevertheless, dust to dust, you know that. That's the rule for you. But hey, maybe you'll have a breakthrough--before it's too late.
What?
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pmOh, yes. And that will affect you as well. I mean, some days it seems like it's just around the corner, other days I don't think I'll live to actually see the start of the tribulation. But it's a-commin.
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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #34

Post by Veridican »

Difflugia wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:19 pm
VII. The Canon
The Veridican Church recognizes the following texts as our canon of scripture: The Gospel of Matthew, The Gospel of Mark, The Gospel of Luke, The Gospel of John, and the book of Revelation (King James Version of 1611, and the New International Version, 1984 ed.), The Gospel of Thomas (Meyer and Bloom, 1992 ed.), and The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ (Gordon, 2012 ed.).
You've excluded Paul. I took that to mean that you don't think his writings were inspired.
Me, personally, I do. I absolutely do. But I think the whole Bible is inspired. But that's irrelevant to our canon. We follow ONLY Jesus Christ, so only his life and teachings are included in our canon. We don't reject the Bible. We simply don't have another teacher--only Jesus.
X. Eschatology
It has been revealed to us by God that mRNA vaccines fulfill the prophecy of John in Revelation 9:13-19. We hold that they are a weapon of the antichrist intended to destroy a significant portion of humanity which will allow the antichrist to come to power.
Considering that you earlier claimed to have been personally informed by the Holy Spirit that the 1984 NIV is the specific Bible to use, I interpreted this divine revelation as something similar. Was I wrong?
No, that's correct. Some of our articles of faith come from instructions God has given to me through the Holy Spirit. I mean, I wrote them, so I guess they all could be considered a communication given to me by God. My wife, the secretary of the Church has also concurred with them.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pm That would wholly depend on how narrowly you mean "like this." While I'm sure you could construct some definition of yourselves that no other sect has used exactly, mystic varieties of Christianity are a dime a dozen and even orthodox sects metaphorically claim to "become Christ" through some devotional exercise or other. If you meant something more literal to the point of making you "unique," it wasn't apparent.
Well, I'm open. I would love nothing more than to find a sect like ours, even if they were in history and no longer exist. I never have, and in 28 years no one has ever pointed one out to me. I really--and I mean this--wish we were not so alone.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pm I can call myself anything I want, but that alone doesn't prove it or cause anyone else to assume that it's true. Merely asserting something, even by way of a self-assigned title, isn't evidence that it's true.
That's fine. I really don't have to prove anything to you, and I'm really not that concerned if you believe. You have told me you're an atheist, so...of course you don't believe anything.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pm If you'll indulge a bit of speculation on my part, it might be that chip on your shoulder that gets you banned more often than any heterodoxy.
I have a chip on my shoulder? I mean, I get it, people are used to other people backing down and not speaking forcefully. If they do speak forcefully, they usually, let's face it, are insane or stupid, or both. I'm neither. I'm very educated, I've been doing this a very long time, I'm not nuts, I speak clearly, and I don't back down. So, people find me offensive. But after all these years, honestly? It's not my attitude, it's that my posts drag groups down. My posts end up being the only thing people are doing in the group. And that irritates a lot of people because they aren't getting any attention anymore. I'm sucking it all in.

But, you do have a point: I can be kind of elitist. But I'm Christ with Christ. I'm not Jesus Christ, but I'm Edward Christ. People should not follow me--they should only follow Jesus Christ, but I'm born again. I wasn't born again into anything else but Christ. It's what Jesus demands of us. He won't take anything less. So, consequently, I am a prince of Divine royalty. I mean, I'm a priest of Jesus Christ's. I'm a son of God.

So, when I'm walking around Walmart...you can imagine my attitude. =;
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pm Color me skeptical, but I look forward to seeing it.
I'll post it. If I'm not kicked out of here in the next couple of days, I'll make it a post.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pm Everyone crosses paths with an unpleasant person occasionally, but if one finds themselves beset by jerks all the time, the other people might not be the problem.
Probably so.
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pm As luck would have it, I am. That's why I doubt it. Especially since you think asserting such without any evidence is sufficient to establish its truth.
Like I said above, I would do anything for you to show me a religious sect, or cult, or church that has as their prime motivator that they follow only Jesus Christ. And the only way they could say that is if they canonized only his life and teachings. It doesn't have to be the same as our canon. They could just be like Matthewites or something.

Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:31 pmYou are an atheist, right? I know you think you don't believe in God. It's actually the other way around. Sad, really. Nevertheless, dust to dust, you know that. That's the rule for you. But hey, maybe you'll have a breakthrough--before it's too late.
What?
What, what? You're an atheist. You have no sense that God exists. You have no connection with God, and you don't think anyone else does either. You fully accept that there will be no life after death for you. Dust to Dust. That's atheism. But hopefully, before it's too late, God will change His mind and show Himself to you.
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They don't care. No one even believes in it anymore (the end times). Of course, that's all part of it.

I like talking to you, even though you're an atheist. I don't know though. Something's fishy. I've always wondered about atheists that hang around the religious forums. I've always suspected they might have a little light that nags away inside their mind no matter how hard they try to blow it out.
All for Christ and only for Christ! :wave:

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #35

Post by 2timothy316 »

Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:14 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:10 pm So Jesus' words to 'stop condemning' holds no weight? When you condemn others then you should expect others to judge you the same. That is why you'll be banned. Not for your faith but for ignoring Jesus' words.
You do know what it means when you say you stand for something but then do the exact opposite right? That's called being hypocritical.
I'm not the one condemning. I'm just stating facts. I'm just describing the lay of the land. :yes:
"Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son" - John 5:22

It is not fact and um yeah you are the one condemning, unless you're the Son of God.

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #36

Post by Tcg »

Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:58 pm What, what? You're an atheist. You have no sense that God exists. You have no connection with God, and you don't think anyone else does either. You fully accept that there will be no life after death for you. Dust to Dust. That's atheism.
No, that is not atheism. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. Some atheists believe in an afterlife:

The pull of 'heaven': Even some atheists believe in afterlife

Even atheists and agnostics, at least some, want to live on after their mortal life is spent. Shermer refers to a 2014 survey by the Austin Institute for the Study of Family and Culture of 15,738 Americans between the ages of 18 and 60 that found 32 percent of those who called themselves nonbelievers thought “there is life, or some sort of conscious existence, after death.”

He cites this tidbit: 6 percent of atheists and agnostics also believe in the bodily resurrection of the dead (compared to 37 percent overall). He concludes that one “may believe in an afterlife but not God. Or both. Or neither.”

https://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/ ... c3da2.html

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #37

Post by Tcg »

Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:39 pm
But it's a fact. And I know I'm going to get banned.
The only way to get banned is to consistently violate the rules or asked to be banned. If one of your posts violates the rules you will be given either a warning or a comment by an admin or moderator. In most cases you will be given many chances to mend your ways and abide by the rules before you will be banned.

Grevious incivility may lead to a quicker banning as will the forementioned asking to be banned. If one desires to participate in this forum and is willing to be civil, they will likely have a long career here as evidenced by the many posters who have been participating for years.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #38

Post by Tcg »

Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:51 pm Like, you might find this very post "rude." Well, that's against the rules. What can I do about it? Nothing.
Incivility is against the rules. And you can do something about it. Remain civil.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #39

Post by Veridican »

Tcg wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:59 pm
No, that is not atheism. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. Some atheists believe in an afterlife:
Well, there are atheists (so-called) who have not examined the implications of their so-called lack of belief. I would argue that they really aren't atheists, they simply are not religious.
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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #40

Post by Veridican »

Tcg wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:22 pm
The only way to get banned is to consistently violate the rules or asked to be banned. If one of your posts violates the rules you will be given either a warning or a comment by an admin or moderator. In most cases you will be given many chances to mend your ways and abide by the rules before you will be banned.
As I mentioned, the rules are so numerous and vague that it really doesn't matter. Someone will ban me, eventually, they will. Some mod, in the middle of the night, and no one will notice, and no one will care. They will just assume I've moved on.
Grevious incivility may lead to a quicker banning as will the forementioned asking to be banned. If one desires to participate in this forum and is willing to be civil, they will likely have a long career here as evidenced by the many posters who have been participating for years.
We'll see, won't we?
All for Christ and only for Christ! :wave:

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