Why not just Jesus?

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Why not just Jesus?

Post #1

Post by Veridican »

Do you ever wonder why, if we are Christians, we don't just follow the Gospels? Like, they would be our only canon of scripture, everything else would just be for historical reference, wisdom, or good advice, but we would be followers of Jesus ONLY. He would be our only teacher. Our canon then would be Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Revelation. Why has there never even been a cult, or church, or denomination like that in all of history? :?:
All for Christ and only for Christ! :wave:

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #61

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to tam in post #59]

Also, your quote doesn't credit the voice to be God speaking.

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #62

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to Veridican in post #1]

Who is ready to love their enemies? Ready to love the person who molested your child?
Someone sues you fir $10,000.... going to give him $20,000
Someone tells you to work until 5p...going to work until 10p.?

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #63

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Avoice wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:43 pm [Replying to tam in post #59]

You've got to be kidding. It is talking about Joshua. I'll give my evidence if you want it. I want your evidence
Where in the Hebrew Scriptures does it indicate that it refers to Jesus?
It doesn't name Joshua (the person who commanded Israel after Moses) as that person.

And CERTAINLY the people were to the Messiah when He came, yes? Do you think Moses or any other prophet ever claimed otherwise? You may not accept that Jah'eshua (which would be translated closer to Joshua in English) is the Messiah, but you cannot possibly be suggesting that we're not supposed to listen to the Messiah?

Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say? John 5:46

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #64

Post by Veridican »

Avoice wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:52 pm [Replying to Veridican in post #1]

Who is ready to love their enemies? Ready to love the person who molested your child?
Someone sues you fir $10,000.... going to give him $20,000
Someone tells you to work until 5p...going to work until 10p.?
You can do something. I'm not strong enough to let someone slap me. I'm a gun nut, a black belt, and a bigger guy. I would fail at that. But I can do something. A guy told me yesterday that I'm an idiot for the way I believe. I responded only with: "Come join my church. We could use someone with your insight."

That's turning the other cheek. Granted, I may be an infant as Christ, but I'm still of the substance of my Lord and savior, and that's what matters.

John the Baptist: "Do you LOVE the people!"
Jesus: "Love them? I mean, I feel sorry for them."
John the Baptist: That's good enough.


--The Last Temptation of Christ
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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #65

Post by Avoice »

Last temptation of Christ

How could God be tempted with anything?

And temptations n is only temptation if it's something we desire. So what's that say about Jesus?

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #66

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to tam in post #63]

"Jah'eshua". What is up with Christians these days? Why don't you call him Jesus any more? I mean, you aren't even writing his name in Hebrew. You are writing a transliteration. And there are no capital letters in Hebrew. You want to speak Hebrew then learn Hebrew.

Where is your evidence? You have no evidence. On the hand I HAVE EVIDENCE. YOU SAY IT DOESN'T NAME JOSHUA? OH YES IT DOES:

" And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him:
and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the Lord commanded Moses."

"Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying,
Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go Jover this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel. Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast.
There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: AS I WAS WITH MOSES, SO I WILL BE WITH THEE: I WILL NOT FAIL THEE, NOR FORSAKE THEE
Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them.
Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper withersoever thou goest. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest. Then Joshua commanded the officers of the people, saying,Pass through the host, and command the people, saying, Prepare you victuals; for within three days ye shall pass over this Jordan, to go in to possess the land, which the Lord your God giveth you to possess it. And to the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to half the tribe of Manasseh, spake Joshua, saying,
Remember the word which Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, saying, The Lord your God hath given you rest, and hath given you this land. Your wives, your little ones, and your cattle, shall remain in the land which Moses gave you on this side Jordan; but ye shall pass before your brethren armed, all the mighty men of valour, and help them;
Until the Lord have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the Lord your God giveth them: then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the Lord's servant gave you on this side Jordan toward the sunrising. AND THEY ANSWERED JOSHUA SAYING , ALL THAT THOU COMMANDEST US WE WILL DO and whithersoever thou sendest us, we will go. ACCORDING AS WE HEARKENED UNTO MOSES IN ALL THINGS, SO WILL WE HEARKENED UNTO THEE only the Lord thy God be with thee, as he was with Moses.
Whosoever he be that doth rebel against thy commandment, and will not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall be put to death: only be strong and of a good courage.

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #67

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Avoice wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:55 pm [Replying to tam in post #63]

"Jah'eshua". What is up with Christians these days? Why don't you call him Jesus any more?
Because that is not now nor has it ever been His name. It is not a transliteration of His name, nor is it even a translation of His name.

He is the Truth. Once I learned that "Jesus" was not and has never been His name, I could no longer use it. I use the name He confirmed to me IS His name.
I mean, you aren't even writing his name in Hebrew. You are writing a transliteration.


Sure, what is wrong with that? A transliteration keeps the sound of a name and in this case, also keeps the meaning of His name. (JAH saves/savior of JAH).
And there are no capital letters in Hebrew. You want to speak Hebrew then learn Hebrew.
It is not about speaking Hebrew.

It is about speaking truth.
Where is your evidence? You have no evidence. On the hand I HAVE EVIDENCE. YOU SAY IT DOESN'T NAME JOSHUA? OH YES IT DOES:
The verse in question does not name Joshua (the Nun).

Or is allusion okay with you now, as long as it supports what you want to believe?


**

I listen to Christ, so I know - because He said it - that Moses (and the prophets) wrote about Him.


**

And you did not answer the questions (there was a typo), but again,

And CERTAINLY the people were to listen to the Messiah when He came, yes? Do you think Moses or any other prophet ever claimed otherwise? You may not accept that Jah'eshua (which would be translated closer to Joshua in English) is the Messiah, but you cannot possibly be suggesting that we're not supposed to listen to the Messiah?



Peace again to you all,
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tammy
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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #68

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to tam in post #67]

You listen to Jesus because he said moses wrote about him. Moses wrote about a lot of things.

It's clear by the Hebrew Scriptures that it is Joshua.
The truth ..you can't speak the truth.

When the Messiah comes the whole world will know him.
If Jesus were the Messiah all would know. That's how you know he isn't the Messiah. He hasn't done anything to deserve the title. He is the Jewish Messiah. The Jews have to be convinced. What Christians believe doesn't matter. You've been waiting over 2000 years. Expect to wait an eternity because the Jews will never accept that do-nothing dead Jew. Second coming....yeah...he had his second coming and did nothing then too. But it sure explains away the failure of the religion. And not only that but the church blames the Jews for him not returning. No...he isn't returning because the Messiah isn't to die and return. Oh brother!

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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #69

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Avoice wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:07 pm [Replying to tam in post #67]

You listen to Jesus because he said moses wrote about him. Moses wrote about a lot of things.
No, I listen to Christ because He is the Truth; because He is the One to whom my Father in heaven led me when I was seeking what was true about Him (about God). I listen to Christ because God said to listen to His Son.
It's clear by the Hebrew Scriptures that it is Joshua.
It is clear from what is written that the voice from heaven is the Father speaking about Christ (His Son).

The truth ..you can't speak the truth.
Regardless of what I can or cannot do, Christ does speak what is true, everything His Father has commanded Him to say.
When the Messiah comes the whole world will know him.
If Jesus were the Messiah all would know. That's how you know he isn't the Messiah.


You start all kinds of threads about why "Jesus" isn't the Messiah, but the reasons you give are not correct.
He hasn't done anything to deserve the title.


That is for God to say. Not you.

Though even I can see that He has done more than enough to deserve the title:

He gave His life (not once, but twice - the firstborn who was slain from the creation of the world; as well as when He gave his life to redeem us from Death). He did this willingly, even knowing that He would be rejected by many, even knowing that He would be hated by many (undeservedly). He has remained faithful to His Father through all things; doing the will of His Father at all times. Everything was created for Him, and He gave His life for us. That is more than enough. He has more than proven Himself.

His Father even said this of Him:

“It is not enough for You to be My Servant, to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the protected ones of Israel. I will also make You a light for the nations, to bring My salvation to the ends of the earth.”

Who can look at those things and say such a person does not 'deserve the title'?

He is the Jewish Messiah. The Jews have to be convinced.
Some Jews were and are convinced.

But Jews do not determine who is the Messiah. God determines that. The Messiah is the Chosen One of God, the Anointed One of God.

What Christians believe doesn't matter.
I agree; it doesn't really matter what anyone "believes".

It matters what is true.

You've been waiting over 2000 years.


And how long have you been waiting?
Expect to wait an eternity because the Jews will never accept that do-nothing dead Jew.


The only reason I could have an eternity (to do anything in) is if Christ is indeed who He said, and He does indeed grant eternal life.

(Also... Christ is not dead. He is alive.)
Second coming....yeah...he had his second coming and did nothing then too.
Not sure what you're talking about there.
But it sure explains away the failure of the religion.


Religion has nothing to do with Christ. It is not from Him.

Religion makes "Jesus" into its own image, using the name "Jesus" to gain followers after ITSELF.

We (at least those of us who claim to love Christ, to be following Christ, to be HIS sheep) are not supposed to be coming to religion. We are supposed to be coming to Christ.
And not only that but the church blames the Jews for him not returning.
I'm not sure how that even makes sense, but religion does a lot of things that don't make sense. I don't blame Jews for Christ not (yet) returning.

Christ returns when the appointed time has come, when His Father tells Him to return. There are some thing that have to happen before that occurs, including that 144 000 (from Israel) are sealed (from Revelation 7). Some of them might not yet even be born.
No...he isn't returning because the Messiah isn't to die and return. Oh brother!
He is not returning because it is not yet time.

Regardless of what some think (or thought) is supposed to happen.



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Re: Why not just Jesus?

Post #70

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to tam in post #69]

"As I was with Moses do will I be with you "(Joshua)

".. THEY ANSWERED JOSHUA SAYING , ALL THAT THOU COMMANDEST US WE WILL DO and whithersoever thou sendest us, we will go. ACCORDING AS WE HEARKENED UNTO MOSES IN ALL THINGS, SO WILL WE HEARKENED UNTO THEE only the Lord thy God be with thee, as he was with Moses"

It's Joshua. And Christians think the Jews are blind. The truth .... How can you read this and ignore it. But you do. Rolling my eyes.

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