"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

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"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.


To Note: This OP has came about more as an eye-opener about Jehovah's Witnesses rather than any attempt at disparagement. Recognizing that every religion, denomination, and congregation has the right to operate as best it sees fit under its particular guidelines, my presentation and comments are strictly the result of surprise and befuddlement after watching the video, Shun Your Family.


I've heard of disfellowship among Jehovah's Witnesses before, but never realized the extent it goes to as a disloyalty test. So, what is disfellowship?

"Disfellowship:
To 'remove the wicked
man' or woman from
the congregation
Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.23 simplified edition"

"Jehovah's Witnesses are disfellowshipped for practices such as disagreeing with Watchtower doctrine, smoking or fornication, if judged by the congregation elders as unrepentant. A disfellowshipped person is to be shunned by all family and friends, usually for the remainder of their life, and go through tremendous emotional suffering. Whilst Scriptural precedence limits association with wrongdoers, Watchtower application of disfellowshipping seriously deviates from Bible guidelines.
source


A particularly disturbing comment in the video below:

"We have to put him [Jehovah] before a father, a mother, and even our children if they're disfellowshipped. And if the disfellowshipping of our family is not bad enough, loyalty to Jehovah may mean we even have to endure reproach. We may be hurting because, 'I can't, can't talk to my family member."
(time mark 2:41)


....................


What really amazes me is that the organization refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever for a member becoming "wicked." Yet it does refuse to, and even tells its members refuse to as well. From the video:

"Now we're gonna mention three things NOT to do, and two of them are games not to play.

The first one is, don't play the blame game. Resist self-blame. We may think that we're at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions. Even young ones that are disfellowshipped . . it's because their relationship with Jehovah was weak.

Avoid the "if only games." "If only we would have preached more, if only I would have talked to them more." "If only we would have done more in the organization. If only. . .If only . . . Don't do that to ourselves
"


It's as if every mother, father, and JW preacher knew exactly how to get through to their children and other members, and actually did so. Think that's true? I don't. I've never heard a JW preacher speak, but I have heard a fair number of other Christian ministers, several of whom were so abysmal they couldn't convince a soaking wet dog to come in out of the rain. Thing is, from time to time we all fail in our relationships with others, and despite the JW philosophy, it isn't always the other guy's fault. Sometimes it's our own, in whole or in part. As willing to listen as a Jehovah's Witness may be it's only reasonable to acknowledge the possible failure of parents and preachers to get through. We don't all come with the same set of responsive abilities. Some of us simply have to be approached from another angle before the message sinks in. So for the sake of those Jehovah's Witnesses who are on the brink of becoming one of the "wicked," as well as their families, I think it would be nice if the organization changed their blame game and acknowledged the part it plays in the failures among its membership.


SO: Do you think I have a point here or not?

.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #261

Post by JehovahsWitness »

tam wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:26 pm Peace to you all,

I thought we were done with this thread, and I'm not sure what else there is to be said, but since we're still going...
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:55 am
tam wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:02 pmThe religion is the one telling her members who they can and cannot associate with.
That is false.
No, it is true.




No it is FALSE.


The instructions to expulse those that do not conform to bible law and principle is in scripture; thus GOD says do it. If a group of humans repeat and apply Gods law then they are not saying anything, God is! They are just repeating it.
God says (through His word) disfellowship those judged by its leadership to not be conducting themselves in a way that shows them worthy to remain, there is no extracting those verses from the bible, they are clear and explicit and not open to interpretation.
Jehovah's Witnesses simply do what God tells them. The ONLY question for us is are those instructions in scripture.

tam wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:26 pm
3 - Christ - not the bible - is the Word of Almighty God. Even the bible attests to that truth.
If by that you mean, to please God there are certain passages (such as the passages that deal with human elders judging and if need be expulsing certain members from the congregation) should be ignored, Jehovah's Witnesses disagree.

NO SÉLECTION BIAS, NO ABROGATION

We accept all of the verses in all of the 66 books in the bible as from God. We do not suffer like some from localized amnesia and selective vision; nor do we hold to abrogation in the Christian Greek scriptures; we accept it all. In any case, the bottom line is that those that do not hold to our position have but to not join or, if they change their minds after joining, LEAVE.

How those that leave are treated and why is the only question under debate. We do not seek any human approval as we can support all we do with scripture, and are not overly concerned by those that disagree with our position.



JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #262

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:51 pm
tam wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:26 pm Peace to you all,

I thought we were done with this thread, and I'm not sure what else there is to be said, but since we're still going...
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:55 am
tam wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:02 pmThe religion is the one telling her members who they can and cannot associate with.
That is false.
No, it is true.




No it is FALSE.


The instructions to expulse those that do not conform to bible law and principle is in scripture; thus GOD says do it. If a group of humans repeat and apply Gods law then they are not saying anything, God is! They are just repeating it.
God says (through His word) disfellowship those judged by its leadership to not be consulting themselves in a way that shows them worthy to remain, there is no extracting those verses from the bible, they are clear and explicit and not open to interpretation.
Jehovah's Witnesses simply do what God tells them.


Matt 17:5 Luke 6:37

**

That being said, most of what you have written in this post was responded to in the previous post, so I will simply link back to that.

viewtopic.php?p=1070050#p1070050


tam wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:26 pm
3 - Christ - not the bible - is the Word of Almighty God. Even the bible attests to that truth.
If by that you mean,
By that I mean exactly what I said.

3 - Christ - not the bible - is the Word of Almighty God. Even the bible attests to that truth.

So yes, what one believes should happen MAY well depend upon who or what one recognizes as the Word of God. (John 1:14; Rev 19:13)




Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #263

Post by JehovahsWitness »

tam wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:42 pm
... most of what you have written in this post was responded to in the previous post, so I will simply link back to that.
And I Will simply link back to what I have already stated. The scriptures and the support can be re-read.



To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , DISFELLOWSHIPPING / SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #264

Post by tam »

Peace again to you all,
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:56 pm
tam wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:42 pm
... most of what you have written in this post was responded to in the previous post, so I will simply link back to that.
And I Will simply link back to what I have already stated.
No problem.

(edited to add that your links have all been responded to as well)
Last edited by tam on Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #265

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Good Well here it is; I think everything has been covered.





Do Jehovah's Witnesses Shun Former Members of Their Religion?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/

How to treat a disfellowshipped person?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102008083

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Break Up Families or Build Them Up?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/families/




REASONS

Why do Jehovahs Witnesses practise shunning?
viewtopic.php?p=1050045#p1050045

Is biblical shunning both scriptural and loving? Questions & Answers
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 71#p895871

When is disfellowshipping/shunning justified?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 72#p895672


What model do the Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to that governs their ecclesiastical lives?
viewtopic.php?p=1029087#p1029087

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses allow repentant sinners to remain in the faith?
viewtopic.php?p=1060185#p1060185


LEAVING THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
Is it true there are two different ways to leave "diassociate" oneself from the Jehovahs Witness faith?
viewtopic.php?p=1066724#p1066724

Can a member leave the Jehovahs Witnesses religion without being shunned by friends and family?
viewtopic.php?p=1066622#p1066622

Is there verifiable documented proof that some ex-witnesses formerly ask to be shunned?
viewtopic.php?p=1066724#p1066724

Do Jehovah's Witnesses have to hide their reasons for leaving the religion from friends and family to avoid being shunned?
viewtopic.php?p=1066677#p1066677

Can a baptised Witness that has already left the organisation be disfellowshipped?
viewtopic.php?p=1066460#p1066460

Why don't many ex-witness support groups emphasis that leaving does NOT equate to being shunned?
viewtopic.php?p=1066583#p1066583
PROCEDURE

Does the bible really authorize its leadership to expel members from its community?
viewtopic.php?p=1068987#p1068987

How do Jehovah's Witnesses ensure published policy is carried out?
viewtopic.php?p=1065143#p1065143

Can entire congregation unilaterally "unofficially" shun a member ?
viewtopic.php?p=1066088#p1066088

Why post official JW protocol? Is it faithfully applied?
viewtopic.php?p=1066775#p1066775

MOTIVES

Do Jehovahs Witnesses shun former members?
viewtopic.php?p=1065834#p1065834

Are people disfellowshipped for internet debating?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 43#p895843

Do JWs disfellowship for watching the wrong movies or or listening to the wrong music?
viewtopic.php?p=1065008#p1065008

Do JWs disfellowship for reading non approved books ?
viewtopic.php?p=1066508#p1066508

Can a Jehovah's Witness join another church without bejng disfellowshipped?
viewtopic.php?p=1066416#p1066416

Can a Jehovah's Witness be shunned for talking with a disfellowshipped person?
viewtopic.php?p=1068944#p1068944

Are Jehovah's Witnesses free to choose who they associated with?
viewtopic.php?p=1068960#p1068960
MARRIAGE MATES
Do JWs see shunning /disfellowshiping as grounds for DIVORCE?
viewtopic.php?p=1032193#p1032193

Do Jehovahs Witnesses break up marriages?
viewtopic.php?p=1032157#p1032157

How are Jehovahs Witnesses taught to treat marriage partners that do not agree with their religion?
viewtopic.php?p=1032167#p1032167

Do Jehovahs Witnesses believe the biblical directive to cut off all contact with an APOSTATE applies to marriage mates?
viewtopic.php?p=1032256#p1032256
CHILDREN

How do Jehovah's Witnesses treat their disfellowshipped or disassociated children ?
viewtopic.php?p=1084891#p1084891

Are members disciplines for neglecting their child if it no longer wishes to continue in the faith?
viewtopic.php?p=1066260#p1066260

Are children 18 and over cast out of the family home if they are disfellowshipped or disassociated?
viewtopic.php?p=1066420#p1066420

How do Jehovah's Witnesses treat ex-member FRIENDS ?
viewtopic.php?p=1066328#p1066328

Are ex-witnesses forced to choose between their beliefs and their family?
viewtopic.php?p=1066408#p1066408
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , DISFELLOWSHIPPING / SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #266

Post by The Nice Centurion »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:03 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:07 am
Jehovahs Witnesses do NOT shun/ disfellowship members because they choose to leave our religion . Anyone that is a baptised member can simply stop coming to our church and after 6 months is no longer counted as a member.

source : https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40704990

Excerpt...

"For some former Jehovah's Witnesses, leaving the faith is not just the mark of losing your religion - it can also mean losing your loved ones."
And after that member is no longer counted as a member, does it get shunned or not?
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again🐟

"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon❗"

"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates❗"

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #267

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Miles in post #1]
Little children are not to be shunned. It is older children who had made the decision to get baptized and then they opt out of the worship of Jehovah that get shunned.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #268

Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:04 pm [Replying to Miles in post #1]
Little children are not to be shunned. It is older children who had made the decision to get baptized and then they opt out of the worship of Jehovah that get shunned.
OK, but I don't recall the OP video making any distinction between older and younger children, nor do I remember it saying that a child has to have made a decision to be baptized before it can be shunned. However, if what you've said is true it would be nice to see such statements from the organization itself.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #269

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:38 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:04 pm [Replying to Miles in post #1]
Little children are not to be shunned. It is older children who had made the decision to get baptized and then they opt out of the worship of Jehovah that get shunned.
OK, but I don't recall the OP video making any distinction between older and younger children, nor do I remember it saying that a child has to have made a decision to be baptized before it can be shunned. However, if what you've said is true it would be nice to see such statements from the organization itself.

.


Only baptized members can be disfellowshipped and Jehovahs Witnesses do not baptize little children (as in infants and toddlers). A child who is a minor may be disfellowshipped but the normal family relationship continues.

HOW DO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES TREAT THEIR DISFELLOWSHIPPED CHILDREN [/b]?
Since his being disfellowshipped does not sever the family ties, normal day-to-day family activities and dealings may continue. .... if the disfellowshipped one is a minor child, the parents are still responsible to instruct and discipline him. Hence, loving parents may arrange to conduct a Bible study with the child[/u]. - lv published: Watchtower Society p. 207 par 3[/u]
Since blood and marital relationships are not dissolved by a congregational disfellowshiping action, the situation within the family circle requires special consideration. ...[Parents] remain under the injunction to ‘go on bringing up their children in the discipline and mental-regulating of Jehovah’ even though a baptized son or a daughter yet a minor is disfellowshiped. (Eph. 6:4 ) - The Watchtower 1974, August 1, p. 470 par 17
Emphasis MINE
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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