Why Was Satan . . .

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Miles
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Why Was Satan . . .

Post #1

Post by Miles »

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. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


............................. Image


Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?



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Re: Why Was Satan . . .

Post #11

Post by myth-one.com »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:34 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:42 am
Satan was given power over the earth long before the creation of man:

How do you know this happened before the creation of man and not after?
<=====================================================>

Under man's dominion, the good earth will reach a state of great tribulation:
Matthew 24:21-22 wrote:For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Due to the same reason, sinning by rebelling against God, the good earth as originally created had reached a state of no form, void, and dark before the Genesis re-creation began in Genesis 1:3!

After God originally created the heavens and earth in the beginning, He did not abandon it to its own fate. He placed a ruler and a host of subordinates to care for the earth. That caretaker was given rule over the earth. So who was this caretaker? It was the archangel Lucifer who became known as the devil or Satan after his rebellion. In the book of Luke, Satan is identified as the ruler having power over the earth.
Luke 4:5-7 wrote:And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
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Re: Why Was Satan . . .

Post #12

Post by Revelations won »

DearJW,

I simply point out in your first response that it ws no I who claimed that God commissioned Satn to tempt man.

Best wishes,
RW

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Re: Why Was Satan . . .

Post #13

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 am DID GOD COMMISSION SATAN TO TEMPT HUMANS?

Image

Satan wasn't "given power to temps man" as in, comissioned by God to temps humans, Satan made that decision himself. God simply didn't kill him (Satan) once he (Satan) had gone ahead and acted on his decision.
In essence then, god committed a "sin" of omission. (Being omniscient god would have known what Satan was about to do.)

sin of omission
"a sin committed because of neglecting to do what is right.
source

In this case, stop Satan.


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Re: Why Was Satan . . .

Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:17 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 am DID GOD COMMISSION SATAN TO TEMPT HUMANS?

Image

Satan wasn't "given power to temps man" as in, comissioned by God to temps humans, Satan made that decision himself. God simply didn't kill him (Satan) once he (Satan) had gone ahead and acted on his decision.
In essence then, god committed a "sin" of omission. (Being omniscient god would have known what Satan was about to do.)

sin of omission
"a sin committed because of neglecting to do what is right.
source

In this case, stop Satan.


.

Well that would depend on whether or not it would have been right to destroy Satan at that time. Your opinion is it would have been, others like myself are of the opinion it would NOT have been. Who ultimately decides in the absolute what is right and what is wrong? You? Are you the universal judge of what is or is not a sin?

If not, thank you for sharing your .... opinion,




JW




Why didn't God destroy Satan immediately?
viewtopic.php?p=845975#p845975
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Re: Why Was Satan . . .

Post #15

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:36 am
Miles wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:17 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 am DID GOD COMMISSION SATAN TO TEMPT HUMANS?

Image

Satan wasn't "given power to temps man" as in, comissioned by God to temps humans, Satan made that decision himself. God simply didn't kill him (Satan) once he (Satan) had gone ahead and acted on his decision.
In essence then, god committed a "sin" of omission. (Being omniscient god would have known what Satan was about to do.)

sin of omission
"a sin committed because of neglecting to do what is right.
source

In this case, stop Satan.


.

Well that would depend on whether or not it would have been right to destroy Satan at that time. Your opinion is it would have been, others like myself are of the opinion it would NOT have been.

In all fairness to myself, O:) I never said god should "kill" or "destroy" Satan. Those are your terms. I merely said that god should "stop" him. AND considering what Satan eventually did, which I believe even you would agree was not good, god therefore had a responsibility to stop him. But now you tell us it would not have been right to stop Satan from being the "catalyst for the fall of humankind."* Interesting.
Who ultimately decides in the absolute what is right and what is wrong? You?
Why not? God certainly can't be trusted to always do the right thing. See HERE

Are you the universal judge of what is or is not a sin?
Never intimated I was, but simply a judge of what I consider right and wrong, just like yourself who made the judgment that it would not have been right to destroy Satan at that time.
BTW the "sin" I mentioned in regard to "sin of omission" was put in quotation marks indicating a "special or ironic sense of the word"** and not to be taken as it's commonly understood.

*source: Encyclopedia Britannica

** source: Hodges, John C. Harbrace College Handbook for Writers. Harcourt Brace Jovanovich 1941-1986 p151


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Re: Why Was Satan . . .

Post #16

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:06 pm
...what I consider right and wrong, just like yourself who made the judgment that it would not have been right to destroy Satan at that time.
Correct. So, you are in no position to say God is presented as doing wrong, only that in your opinion it was wrong. I point this out because you stated it as if it it could not be contended, almost as if you were stating a fact rather than a belief; " ...this is what is reported to have happened and it was wrong, end of story"

You think it was wrong, fine. I disagree.


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Re: Why Was Satan . . .

Post #17

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:44 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:06 pm
...what I consider right and wrong, just like yourself who made the judgment that it would not have been right to destroy Satan at that time.
Correct. So, you are in no position to say God is presented as doing wrong, only that in your opinion it was wrong.
Of course it's my opinion. Moreover I can indeed say "God is presented as doing wrong." There! See, I just said it. Now, you can accept it or not, but neither of your choices makes any difference to the fact that I AM in a position to say God is presented as doing wrong, just as anyone else in the world is. Furthermore, you, JehovahsWitness, can say "God is presented as doing right." Go ahead and try it. ;)

I point this out because you stated it as if it it could not be contended, almost as if you were stating a fact rather than a belief;
Then that's your misperception. But just to be clear, both beliefs and perceived facts can be contended.

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Re: Why Was Satan . . .

Post #18

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:30 am There! See, I just said it.
And I'm sure you believe sincerely with all your heart that what you said it true. However I'll just remind you that believing what you say doesn't make it true. And that in this subforum you can be challenged about your beliefs. So yes, you can say anything you like, you can say all atheists are pink chiffons floating on a herd of purple unicorns if you so wish, just as long as you understand what you say can be contended.

Thanks for sharing,


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Re: Why Was Satan . . .

Post #19

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:06 pm ...god therefore had a responsibility to stop him.
No, I dont believe God (presuming he exists*) would have the responsibility to stop him [Satan] and I certainly wouldn't say he was wrong not to do so at that time.


JW






[ * ]I usually use conditionals ( ... or suppositions, hypothesis etc ) when discussing God in this subforum in order to respect forum guidelines while also avoiding making any absolute claims in this regard.This hopefully avoids being sidetracked by challenges to prove God's existence when that is not the point of discussion.
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Romans 14:8

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Re: Why Was Satan . . .

Post #20

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:06 pm
Who ultimately decides in the absolute what is right and what is wrong? You?
Why not?
Because for any human who, by definition is limited in lifespan, experience and knowledge to set himself up as the the universal judge what is acceptable for all intelligent beings for all time would be the ultimate in folly. No human (not even you my friend) is in a position to properly assess every action, even before it has happened, its motives and circumstances and see the ultimate gravity of said action as it impacts on others as far into the future as they exist. No human can see, let alone understand the entire scope of intelligent existence and judge what and how that must be assessed to ensure the best of all possible outcomes for everyone concerned ... for all time.

That's why not.


JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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