Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

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Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

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Post by Revelations won »

Perhaps another way of asking this question is, does the mighty atonement of Jesus the Christ available to ALL of God’s children?

If not what are the exemptions if any?

Are there any that have lived in mortality that are beyond the scope of repentance?

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Re: Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

Post #11

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Miles in post #10]
Don't you know that those verses are corrupted? They mention "hell" when the word should be "Gehenna." It is very different from "hell." Do some more work researching the words "Gehenna," "Hades," and "Tartarus." The KJV throws them all together, when they are all different. The "fires of Gehenna" denote complete annihilation, just as trash thrown onto the garbage dump disappears in the flames. You are promoting fake news when you post stuff like you just did.

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Re: Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

Post #12

Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:13 pm [Replying to Miles in post #10]
Don't you know that those verses are corrupted? They mention "hell" when the word should be "Gehenna."
Good grief! Grab your torches and pitchforks men. We got some huntin' and hangin' to do.


It is very different from "hell."
Yup. Gehenna was a garbage dump . . . .

The word “Gehenna” (G1067) is translated as hell many times in the Gospels. Gehenna is the English transliteration of the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew word “Hinnom.” Hinnom/Gehenna was the name of a valley just south of Jerusalem’s walls. In Jesus’s time, the Hinnom Valley, or Gehenna, was utilized as the city garbage dump and sewer. Its name stemmed from a family name, being originally called the Valley (“Gay” in Hebrew) of Hinnom (2 Chronicles 28:3; 33:6; Jeremiah 7:31; 32:35).

The Hinnom Valley or Gehenna was also called “Topeth” and “Valley of Slaughter” (I1 Kings 23:10; Jeremiah 7:32). Each of these alternate names are connected to a time when the Kingdom of Judah fell into idolatry, where this valley was used as a location for child sacrifice to the pagan god Moloch (I1 Kings 23:10). During the Babylonian invasion, mounds of dead human bodies were piled in Gehenna (Jeremiah 7:32). The valley’s name carries forward to current times; it is currently called the “Hinnom Valley” and still sits just outside the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem (although it is no longer a dump).
source

. . .while hell is "a location in the afterlife in which evil souls are subjected to punitive suffering, most often through torture, as eternal punishment after death.

Religions with a linear divine history often depict hells as eternal destinations, the biggest examples of which are Christianity and Islam, whereas religions with reincarnation usually depict a hell as an intermediary period between incarnations, as is the case in the dharmic religions. Religions typically locate hell in another dimension or under Earth's surface. Other afterlife destinations include heaven, paradise, purgatory, limbo, and the underworld.
source: wikipedia



Oh yes, we also know that "Jehovah's Witnesses hold that the soul ceases to exist when the person dies and therefore that hell (Sheol or Hades) is a state of non-existence. In their theology, Gehenna differs from Sheol or Hades in that it holds no hope of a resurrection.Tartarus is held to be the metaphorical state of debasement of the fallen angels between the time of their moral fall (Genesis chapter 6) until their post-millennial destruction along with Satan (Revelation chapter 20)."
Source: "What Does the Bible Really Teach?", 2005, Published by Jehovah's Witnesses.

So what difference does it make what the afterlife is called?
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Re: Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

Post #13

Post by Brightfame52 »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #8]

All that follow Him are His People, but they were His people prior to their following Him. Just like they were His Sheep before they start following Him. Following Him is a consequential effect of having been His People or Sheep, not the cause !

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Re: Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

Post #14

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Miles in post #12]

Hell is not a place in the afterlife where conscious souls abide. Hell => the grave.

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Re: Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

Post #15

Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:11 pm [Replying to Miles in post #12]

Hell is not a place in the afterlife where conscious souls abide. Hell => the grave.
And your evidence is what chapters and verses?

On the other hand we have Deuteronomy 32:22 saying:
"For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains."

And Psalm 16:10 saying:
"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

Moreover, Psalm 55:15 says:
"Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them."

Isaiah 14:15:
"Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

Ezekiel 31:16:
"I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth."


All indicating a place one might reside after death, and not the grave---gotta remember some of us are cremated. So, as I asked, whatcha got as evidence for our claim?


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Re: Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

Post #16

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:12 am

On the other hand we have Deuteronomy 32:22 saying:
"For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains."
DEUT 32:22 NWT

For my anger has kindled a fire that will burn to the depths of the Grave, and it will consume the earth and its produce and will set ablaze the foundations of mountains
.

I see nothing in this verse that even mentions the eternal torture of some element of a human that survives their physical death. Since you provided no argument and nothing approaching an interpretation for the verse above, I will simply state that the verse speaks in poetic language of God's anger (metaphorically likened to fire ) and wait to see if you attempt to challenge this conclusion.

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:12 am
All indicating a place one might reside after death, and not the grave---gotta remember some of us are cremated.
Incorrect. All the verses mentioned use poetic language to refer to either death (death "grabs" although death is a condition and does not have hands) or the condition of being dead (the symbolic common "grave" of mankind)


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To learn more please go to other posts related to...

BIBLE "HELL", THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...HELLFIRE TORTURE DEBUNKED
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Romans 14:8

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Re: Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

Post #17

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Miles in post #15]
All those references are actually "Hades" or "Sheol" which mean the same thing. Translators render the verses with "hell" and this is confusing because many translators translate "Hades," "Gehenna," and "Tartarus," as well as the lake of fire as "Hell." They are not all the same.

Anyway your quotes are speaking of the GRAVE of mankind. Not a fiery hell.

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Re: Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

Post #18

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:58 am
Miles wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:12 am

On the other hand we have Deuteronomy 32:22 saying:
"For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains."
DEUT 32:22 NWT

For my anger has kindled a fire that will burn to the depths of the Grave, and it will consume the earth and its produce and will set ablaze the foundations of mountains
.
I see nothing in this verse that even mentions the eternal torture of some element of a human that survives their physical death.
Neither do I, but then eternal torture is not the issue, but rather that hell existed as an undesirable place one might end up in after death, and not simply, "Hell => the grave" as onewithhim wrote.

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:12 am All indicating a place one might reside after death, and not the grave---gotta remember some of us are cremated.
Incorrect. All the verses mentioned use poetic language to refer to either death (death "grabs" although death is a condition and does not have hands) or the condition of being dead (the symbolic common "grave" of mankind)
Really, the old Poetic Language gambit raises its head.

Then what do you think Isaiah 14:15: was talking about when it says "Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."? Down into a pit? That sure sounds like a place to me.

Or when Ezekiel 31:16: says, ". . . when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: . . . . "Down to"? "Descend into?" Certainly sounds like someone is going somewhere.

Or when Psalm 55:15 says:". . . , and let them go down quick into hell: . . . ?" "Go down into" is not staying in any six-foot deep grave, that's for sure.

Or when And Psalm 16:10 says "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell;. . . ?" "Leave one's soul in hell" Kind of speaks of a place other than any grass covered grave, doesn't it. Sure it does.

Or when Deuteronomy 32:22 says:". . . and shall burn unto the lowest hell. . . .?" "Burn[ing] in a lowest hell" isn't just "death" or a simple "condition of being dead" in the ground.

All of them sound like they're describing a place other than a "six-foot" grave.

onewithhim wrote: [Replying to Miles in post #15]
All those references are actually "Hades" or "Sheol" which mean the same thing. Translators render the verses with "hell" and this is confusing because many translators translate "Hades," "Gehenna," and "Tartarus," as well as the lake of fire as "Hell." They are not all the same.

Anyway your quotes are speaking of the GRAVE of mankind. Not a fiery hell.
Prove it. While your source may call it "Hades" or "Sheol," my sources call it hell." And while you're thing about this, consider: is your Sheol a place to go down to? Have the sides of a pit? A place to descend to? A place to be brought to? A place to be cast down to? A place to otherwise be left in? A place that has lowest levels? All descriptions in the five verses I cited.

"The Bible uses the word hell 54 times throughout the Old and New Testaments (KJV). The first mention of the word hell is found in Deuteronomy 32:22 as follows: “For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.” In this passage, the Lord saw that there were Israelites who were practicing idolatry and not honoring the “Rock of salvation” that created them (Deuteronomy 32:1-25).

The Lord further described how they would be consumed in his anger and shall be burned in the lowest hell, which sets on fire the foundations of the mountains. He also described this place as the place he will send them where the teeth of beasts and the poison of serpents will attack them so that they will experience a continual terror. The Hebrew word used for hell in this verse is the word Sheol, which is used to describe the underground world of the dead. If we combine this word with its description from the Lord, Sheol can be described as an underground location where people who have rejected God are tormented by fire, the gnashing of teeth of beasts, and the poison of serpents.

The first use of the word hell in the New Testament is found when Jesus spoke about it in Matthew 5:22 as follows:

“But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”

source



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Last edited by Miles on Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

Post #19

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:47 pm
Neither do I, but then eternal torture is not the issue, but rather that hell existed as a undesirable place ....
Well who wants to be dead?

If you are not claiming these scriptures prove something of a person survived their biological death To be tortured, I have no issue.



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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Is Christ the Savior of All Mankind?

Post #20

Post by Brightfame52 »

Christ is the Saviour of His Body Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

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