Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

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michaelgabriel88
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Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

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Post by michaelgabriel88 »

We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it?s easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks G-d is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties.

No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth G-d is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it?s foundation is false and invented by masons.

G-d created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from G-d and his kingdom the order G-d has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe.

We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt G-d and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against G-d and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for G-d gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.

Our own system is flaw because we copy from each empire that has been establish Babylon, Rome, Greece, Britian, and Nazi Germany. Each has given its concept of right and law and all have copied each other and failed. Because again bible has establish that G-d and his system works and we with our notion of democracy and rights have copied on Rome and Babylon and they are wrong.

The most important things that because we have technology which has help us after world war 2 we think we have surpass it all and enter the digitla world and we circumvalent our promblems of family, corruption, and normal things we had before the 1950?s and think we are gods. And we want to be eternal and to be like powerful like G-d because it is what we have always been thinking because all of it is copy. When we are original and have the right system like he does everything works but our government and system does not because we are with flaws and our own boundaries aren?t the solutions they are A reminder that we will never have A perfect system thus our rights and belief in them cannot be the truth.

The freewill is revealed that there is A difference from freewill with G-d on accepting the right and wrong and succeeding in that way and from freewill from our modern concept which has failed and clashes with G-d?s law which is right and truth and unless we do not use our rights against G-d freewill is that what we make only A lie and it existence false.

Freewill from that point of view is that of society and since society has masonry in it and all foundations of masonery is babylon and Dagon it compells people to make G-d like unfair despotism but you cannot apply that to G-d for he is G-d and he is God of Gods those words are just feeble people who make laws copying the old empires and fallacy arrives in it?s policy.

There is A way government can follow G-d?s politics but that will be another day. But people and society will always collapse confronting and using thier rights and saying there is no freewill when you have to one understand things from G-d?s point of view understand what serveth the law, how the law is completed thru love and how faith as A tool helps you make A better realtionship with G-d.

When you find the truth and love in his way that G-d establish thru Jesus Christ you understand A secret way which freewill co-exist with G-d and love is what that bound unites it and makes freewill work but not under modern society but thru G-d mosaic law and know that is true freewill has been given to you but from the stance of modern world and republics establish go into error.

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Re: Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

Post #11

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:27 am If by "free will" you mean : the ability to choose between two or more possible options then yes we do have free will; this is self evident since people can be seen to make choices everyday.

There is nobody that can prove those choices are in fact being controlled by some unseen entity.
"Prove"? I doubt it, just like it's doubtful that there is anyone who can "prove" those choices are not, in fact, being controlled by some unseen entity or cause. However, I do believe there is sufficient philosophical rational to dismiss the contention that free will exists. A rational that's driven by the question "why." Why, for instance, did you pick up the letter A rather than the letter B? There must have been some cause, right.? A "because"? If there was no cause then picking A was simply a matter utter randomness: picking B had just as much chance of happening as picking A, all of which would leave choice/choosing as a meaningless concept---your will didn't freely pick a thing. However, if there was a cause, then that cause overrode all other possible causes as thee necessary operative factor at the moment of picking A, or B, or even C, or D. In fact, you could not have done any differently than to pick up A. You had to pick A because that's what you were caused to do. So what caused you to pick A? Don't know, but I'm darn certain it was a prior causal event of some sort. THING IS, choosing doesn't actually exist, despite how much you may feel that's what you're doing. What is happening is a deterministic event, the inevitable and necessary consequence of antecedent states of affairs. ALL of what you "choose" to do is determined by those causal events that preceded it. Picking A was inevitable. Picking B was never a possibility of any kind.



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Re: Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

Post #12

Post by michaelgabriel88 »

[Replying to Miles in post #11]

Miles don't go to far please the reason of freewill is that there many possiblities in life not only did Elijah change destiny, moses change destiny when he hit the rock and insted he shall pray, or Hulda who also made mistake in prophecy know the kings also made mistake and those variables all matter but put things a day at a time and put things in God hands Miles you are not God and let God do his job because the universe continues his way and he knows best you do your part and nothing bad at you do A good job worshipping God and he loves ya. Like proverbs says do things he ways and not your and you will see that all those fears leave behind and it was always better that way.

You'll find the real things of love and faith.

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Re: Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

Post #13

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:00 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:27 am If by "free will" you mean : the ability to choose between two or more possible options then yes we do have free will; this is self evident since people can be seen to make choices everyday.
... I do believe there is sufficient philosophical rational to dismiss the contention that free will exists.
Emphasis MINE

Well everyone has beliefs, that's why we have church.

We see people making choices every single day (you needed to make choices to type your post denying peoples ability to make choices). If by "free will" you mean that ability to make choices, your post is sufficient evidence you have free will. Unless, that is, you are denying you chose to type the letters in the order you did.

Just as rational people rarely claim gravity does not exist, because they can see its effects all around them, any "philosophical rational" that people do not have the ability to make choices is entirely rubbished by actual observation of the realities around us. Our ability to choose is not negated by the factors that may or may not influence our choices.




Miles wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:00 pm... choosing doesn't actually exist, despite how much you may feel that's what you're doing.
see above


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Re: Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

Post #14

Post by William »

Free will can be experienced even if it is the case that we exist within a pre-determined construct.

This is because, due to the nature of the Universe and our position within it, we can believe even that the universe is a mindless chaotic mess of a thing, due to it looking to be the case at cursory glance, from said position.

Even with a studied focus, there is often not enough evidence for us to do anything other than believe free will exists.

The idea of having the ability to choose - even that often we are not absolutely aware of where those choices may take us - gives us a feeling of liberation and control...even- as stated - if we do exist within and environment which is totally pre-determined.

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Re: Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

Post #15

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to michaelgabriel88 in post #1]

The bible presents God as sovereign. If God is sovereign, then we don't have freewill. If we have freewill, then God isn't sovereign. You can't have both freewill and a sovereign God.


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Re: Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

Post #16

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:49 pm
Miles wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:00 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:27 am If by "free will" you mean : the ability to choose between two or more possible options then yes we do have free will; this is self evident since people can be seen to make choices everyday.
... I do believe there is sufficient philosophical rational to dismiss the contention that free will exists.
Emphasis MINE

Well everyone has beliefs, that's why we have church.
Nah, we have church because most folk are unable to cope with life. It's their refuge.

We see people making choices every single day (you needed to make choices to type your post denying peoples ability to make choices).
Ah yes, the illusion. Tsk! Tsk!

If by "free will" you mean that ability to make choices, your post is sufficient evidence you have free will. Unless, that is, you are denying you chose to type the letters in the order you did.
BINGO!

Just as rational people rarely claim gravity does not exist, because they can see its effects all around them, any "philosophical rational" that people do not have the ability to make choices is entirely rubbished by actual observation of the realities around us. Our ability to choose is not negated by the factors that may or may not influence our choices.
Guess you missed the part where I said:

"THING IS, choosing doesn't actually exist, despite how much you may feel that's what you're doing. What is happening is a deterministic event, the inevitable and necessary consequence of antecedent states of affairs. ALL of what you "choose" to do is determined by those causal events that preceded it. Picking A was inevitable. Picking B was never a possibility of any kind."

But that's okay, most people refuse to see it because of its uncomfortable implications. For one thing, Sin and Salvation are rendered moot.

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Re: Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

Post #17

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:52 am
"THING IS, choosing doesn't actually exist, despite how much you may feel that's what you're doing. What is happening is a deterministic event, the inevitable and necessary consequence of antecedent states of affairs. ALL of what you "choose" to do is determined by those causal events that preceded it. Picking A was inevitable. Picking B was never a possibility of any kind."
No, I didnt miss it. That would be covered by the following....
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:49 pm
Just as rational people rarely claim gravity does not exist, because they can see its effects all around them, any "philosophical rational" that people do not have the ability to make choices is entirely rubbished by actual observation of the realities around us. Our ability to choose is not negated by the factors that may or may not influence our choices.
Unless you can demonstrate your belief is true, there is little point for anybody but yourself (and others who share your beliefs) in your claiming what is clearly observable isn't actually happening at all . You can claim there is no such thing as a toothache but that wouldn't make all the dentists disappear.


JW
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Romans 14:8

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Re: Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

Post #18

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:07 am
Miles wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:52 am
"THING IS, choosing doesn't actually exist, despite how much you may feel that's what you're doing. What is happening is a deterministic event, the inevitable and necessary consequence of antecedent states of affairs. ALL of what you "choose" to do is determined by those causal events that preceded it. Picking A was inevitable. Picking B was never a possibility of any kind."
No, I didnt miss it. That would be covered by the following....
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:49 pm
Just as rational people rarely claim gravity does not exist, because they can see its effects all around them, any "philosophical rational" that people do not have the ability to make choices is entirely rubbished by actual observation of the realities around us. Our ability to choose is not negated by the factors that may or may not influence our choices.


Unless you can demonstrate your belief is true, there is little point for anybody but yourself (and others who share your beliefs) in your claiming what is clearly observable isn't actually happening at all .
And I did just that! :dance: Now if you have any questions as to its philosophical underpinnings please bring them on. However . .

. . . at the same time I expect your explanation of freewill. Specifically, the mental process that goes on in the will that "chooses" A rather than B. .... In short, the HOW of it all.


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Re: Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

Post #19

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:22 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:49 pm
Just as rational people rarely claim gravity does not exist, because they can see its effects all around them, any "philosophical rational" that people do not have the ability to make choices is entirely rubbished by actual observation of the realities around us. Our ability to choose is not negated by the factors that may or may not influence our choices.


Unless you can demonstrate your belief is true, there is little point for anybody but yourself (and others who share your beliefs) in your claiming what is clearly observable isn't actually happening at all .

Now if you have any questions....
No, I think everything is covered by "entirely rubbished" thanks. I will await verifiable proof of your beliefs before giving them any further consideration.


Thanks for sharing,


JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

FREE WILL, SELECTIVE FOREKNOWLEDGE and ... RESPONSIBILITY
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Do we have freewill or is it biblical ? Does applied to us ?

Post #20

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:39 am
Miles wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:22 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:49 pm
Just as rational people rarely claim gravity does not exist, because they can see its effects all around them, any "philosophical rational" that people do not have the ability to make choices is entirely rubbished by actual observation of the realities around us. Our ability to choose is not negated by the factors that may or may not influence our choices.


Unless you can demonstrate your belief is true, there is little point for anybody but yourself (and others who share your beliefs) in your claiming what is clearly observable isn't actually happening at all .

Now if you have any questions....
No, I think everything is covered by "entirely rubbished" thanks. I will await verifiable proof of your beliefs before giving them any further consideration.
Sorry to have scared you off by asking you to demonstrate the truth of freewill---to be honest, I wasn't holding out much hope. But as a helpful FYI, it might be well to remember that verifiable proof is only applicable in mathematics, formal/symbolic logic, and in expressing alcohol content. ... You're welcome. O:)



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