JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

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JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

Post #1

Post by Revelations won »

What was the date of this claim of the Kingdom of God restored in 1914?

What did God do to set up the Kingdom of Heaven?

Is there any record of what he said to accomplish this great event?

Did the JW's originally claim that Christ would come on the date they claimed?

Let us hear your clear answers to the above questions.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

Post #111

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

Avoice wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:39 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #107]

If you only remember one thing let it be what you said:

"How can one obey the law if they don't know it?

If you are a Christian you think Jesus is going to save you. What you apparently don't realize is that by being a Christian you have knowledge of the law. And the very fact of hiding behind Jesus proves that you know the laws. Otherwise why are you hiding? Jesus isn't saving you - he has proved to God that you are willfully disobedient to God. You condemn yourself. If you didn't put Jesus between you and God you'd be better off.

Remember when Adam and Eve knew they did wrong? How they tried covering themselves? All that did was show God that they KNEW they disobeyed. Well, Jesus is one big fig leaf!

Go read Jesus' famous sermon on the mount. Notice how he says
'You have heard it said_____BUT I say_____.
He reminds the people of the law THEN says to listen to HIS way. He made sure to repeat what the law states before trying to get people to disregard it and listen to him instead. Therefore no one can say they didn't know about the law. They have no excuse at that point

Think back again to the garden in Eden. The servent didn't just appear and say "EAT THAT FRUIT!". Noooo...... First he reminds Eve what God said about it. He did it in the form of a question. But he succeeded in proving to God that her disobedience wasn't because she didn't know the law God gave. She KNEW. AND SHE KNEW THE CONSEQUENCES if she disobeyed. The serpent promised that their greatest desire would be granted: eternal life. How did that work out?

The Garden Has man's greatest lesson in it. It tells us to only listen to what Gid tells us. Don't let anyone convince you that what laws come firth from God don't matter anymore. It also tells us about the serpent. He gets people to acknowledge the law then disobey it. He will even promise the ultimate reward: eternal life.
THAT IS THE OLDEST TRICK IN THE BOOK!

You've been told what to watch out for. Anybody you know tell you about the law then try to get you to do differently? Promise you'll live forever even?
Maybe this will wake you up. Jesus said:

Had I not come and spoken to them they would not have sin. But now they have no cloak for their sins.
Sooooooo.... If Jesus wouldn't have got you to listen to him you could have avoided having knowledge of the law. But since you listened to him you ARE aware of the law. And have no excuse. If you think you are covered by Jesus...you have no covering.
Jesus - the fatal fig leaf
You seem to be missing the message of Yeshua, which was confess your sin, repent, be baptized in the spirit, and produce good fruit, or be cut down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 3). As for the message of the devil/serpent, that you surely shall not die, that was the message of Paul, the false prophet, who taught lawlessness, as his message is portrayed as the message of the devil (Matthew 13:39-42), whereas the tares, the followers of the message would be tossed into the furnace of fire. As for the law given through Moses, Moses said a prophet would come in which Israel was to listen to, and that would be the message of the son of man, and as for the law addressed by Yeshua, his message was that it was not enough to physically commit adultery, but that the sin starts in the heart, and one commits adultery by looking at a woman with lust. As for what the law says about itself, it says the law will be made more just, in that one will be judged for their own iniquity, and not for the iniquity of their fathers (Jeremiah 31:29-34). As for marriage, Yeshua pointed out that in the beginning, God made man and woman one flesh, and that is the way it should be. You seem to be mixing up the message of the church of Peter and Paul, the "Christian" church, with the message of Yeshua.

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Re: JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

Post #112

Post by William »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #110]
Why are you trying to imply that it is one of Gods laws that we know scripture, or that it is somehow lawful to accuse someone of not?
For the bible believing Christian knowledge is essentially for one cannot obey "the greatest commandement" without accurate knowledge.
Yet quite obviously there is no such commandment that scripture be known, therefore the knowledge must be sourced elsewhere.

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Re: JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

Post #113

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:20 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #110]
Why are you trying to imply that it is one of Gods laws that we know scripture, or that it is somehow lawful to accuse someone of not?
For the bible believing Christian knowledge is essentially for one cannot obey "the greatest commandement" without accurate knowledge.
Yet quite obviously there is no such commandment that scripture be known, therefore the knowledge must be sourced elsewhere.
It's implicit, for how can one obey a commandement if one does not know what it is?



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Re: JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

Post #114

Post by William »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #113]
It's implicit, for how can one obey a commandement if one does not know what it is?
Why should one obey a commandment, even if one does know what it is?
Your reply simply infers that without knowing scripture, commandments in scripture cannot be obeyed, and thus the commandment to know scripture is 'implied'.

How would you explain how someone can accomplish loving themselves and others without ever having had access to any scriptures?

That is why I wrote;

"Yet quite obviously there is no such commandment that scripture be known, therefore the knowledge must be sourced elsewhere."

Since you have not addressed that in your reply, the statement stands.

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Re: JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

Post #115

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:02 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #113]
It's implicit, for how can one obey a commandement if one does not know what it is?
Why should one obey a commandment, even if one does know what it is?
If it is a bible command, for the Christian, because they want to please God.

William wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:02 pmYour reply simply infers that without knowing scripture, commandments in scripture cannot be obeyed, and thus the commandment to know scripture is 'implied'.

Yes that is correct. The first Chrstians obtained their knowledge of God's requirements (laws) through the spoken word, but at the present time, scripture is the primary way God communicates his will to mankind (see 2 Tim 3:16, 17). But either way, knowledge is the first step to pleasing God and pleasing God is the Christian's goal in life.
William wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:02 pmHow would you explain how someone can accomplish loving themselves [ * ] and others without ever having had access to any scriptures?
Because God has given humans certain innate qualities which come naturally and reflect to a degree his own personality and values. That said it is since loving the true God is the first and greatest command, and one cannot love a God one does not know, those with no knowledge of scripture today cannot obey the first commandment.


[ * ] NOTE Loving oneself is a necessary component of the second greatest commandement (for one cannot love your neighbour as yourself if you dont love yourself) but loving oneself is not an explicit Christian command.

Is a reason you chose to ignore John 17:3?








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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

Post #116

Post by William »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #115]
Why should one obey a commandment, even if one does know what it is?
If it is a bible command, for the Christian, because they want to please God.
There is no bible command to know scripture. As already mentioned, even scripture used by the religious folk to point fingers of commendation at others, is not regarded as binding.
Yes that is correct. The first Chrstians obtained their knowledge of God's requirements (laws) through the spoken word, but at the present time, scripture is the primary way God communicates his will to mankind (see 2 Tim 3:16, 17). But either way, knowledge is the first step to pleasing God and pleasing God is the Christian's goal in life.
Are you claiming that The Creator is incapable of communicating with the individual in any other way, except scripture?
Because God has given humans certain innate qualities which come naturally and reflect to a degree his own personality and values. That said it is since loving the true God is the first and greatest command, and one cannot love a God one does not know,
Are you claiming that knowing scripture is = to loving God, or - are you claiming that your 'God' is scripture? [The Bible]
Those with no knowledge of scripture today cannot obey the first commandment.
Unsupported statements do not, a fact [truth] make.
NOTE Loving oneself is a necessary component of the second greatest commandement (for one cannot love your neighbour as yourself if you dont love yourself) but loving oneself is not an explicit Christian command.
Surely it is implicit. How can one love others if one does not love oneself? How can one love oneself if one does not love one's God?

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Re: JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

Post #117

Post by onewithhim »

William wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:27 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:31 pm
William wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:56 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #105]
It is you who don't know the Scriptures.
As it happens, it is not one of Gods laws that I even have to. It is certainly not something one is required to do as part of obeying the law 'to the letter'...
How can one obey the Law if they don't know it?
One simply has to love oneself and ones neighbor... where is that written, other than within one's heart.
Why are you trying to imply that it is one of Gods laws that we know scripture, or that it is somehow lawful to accuse someone of not?
But Scripture says that we must love Jehovah our God first of all, and then our neighbor. (Luke 10:27)

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Re: JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

Post #118

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:32 pm
Those with no knowledge of scripture today cannot obey the first commandment.
Unsupported statements do not, a fact [truth] make.
SUPPORT FOR STATEMENT

LUKE 10: 25 -28 Now look! a man versed in the Law stood up to test him and said: “Teacher, what do I need to do to inherit everlasting life?” He said to him: “What is written in the Law? How do you read?” In answer he said: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” He said to him: “You answered correctly; keep doing this and you will get life.”


JOHN 17:3

This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God,+ and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ
ACTS 17: 30

... God has overlooked the times of such ignorance; but now he is declaring to all people everywhere that they should repent. 31 Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.”
2 TIMOTHY 3: 16, 17

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

Post #119

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #110]

Yeah, I read the quote.

You don't know anything about Jesus. Yet you admire him and call him lord. Doesn't that trouble you?

The creator spoke at Sinai. Is there a reason why you don't want to acknowledge what he said there? You don't seem to mind believing in a religion that has cut you off from that. That tells me that given a choice you'd rather not keep the law.
Would you like to keep the law?
Would it be something pleasant for you or make your life miserable?
Do you see the laws as good for mankind or not good? And why?

Thank you

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Re: JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

Post #120

Post by JehovahsWitness »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:26 pm
William wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:20 pm ...there is no such commandment that scripture be known...
It's implicit, for how can one obey a commandement if one does not know what it is?
William wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:32 pm
NOTE Loving oneself is a necessary component of the second greatest commandement (for one cannot love your neighbour as yourself if you dont love yourself) but loving oneself is not an explicit Christian command.
Surely it is implicit. How can one love others if one does not love oneself?
Yes, sometimes in has to use critical thinking skills to understand if there is no direct explicit statement the direction is still there implicitly

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:26 pmIt's implicit, for how can one obey a commandement if one does not know what it is?
William wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:32 pm... it is implicit. How can one love others if one does not love oneself?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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