Paul - after his conversion

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Rose2020
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Paul - after his conversion

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Post by Rose2020 »

Hi
I am new here.

My question is about Paul. I am reading John Pollock's biography which I regard as excellent.
He writes that it was three years after the dramatic blindness and conversion that Paul began preaching and ministering.
I wonder how he grew in his knowledge during those preparatory years?
The disciples welcomed him upon his return to Damascus but the apostles were much more wary for a while. Yet those who first heard him preach at the synagogue were amazed at his knowledge and the difference in him.

Forgive me if I have any of the facts incorrect, but this is as I understand matters. I know Paul was a great scholar anyway, but even so, from what sources would he have built his knowledge of Jesus whilst he was not in touch with Jesus' closest followers?

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Re: Paul - after his conversion

Post #21

Post by Diogenes »

2timothy316 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:54 pm I don't read in the Bible where Paul said that Jesus was God. He wrote that Jesus wasn't equal to God. (Philippians 1:5, 6)

At any rate are you saying that what is written in the New Testament (mostly written by Paul) isn't true? Do you know what forum you're in?
You're just talking semantics now. Paul calls Jesus 'the Christ,' and the 'Son of God' and creates the theology of the 'Trinity.' Paul goes on in Philippians[/i,] chapter 1 to treat Jesus as a god or demigod:
Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.
To Live Is Christ
Yes, and I will rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance, as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.


In Colossians Paul declares "Christ is all and in all!" after stating he is seated at the right hand of God. Or do you contend Paul does not declare Jesus divine?

In any event, you sidestep the main point, that Paul and all his ravings come AFTER his psychotic break with reality.
. . . or did you forget logic applies in all forums?
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Re: Paul - after his conversion

Post #22

Post by Eloi »

Anyone who reads the Bible knows that Paul was not a Trinitarian. Speaking about Jesus Christ, he said:

1 Cor. 15:27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.

Paul, granted the privilege of being inspired to write more than half of the NT books, believed in the God of Abraham as his own God:

2Tim.1:3 I am grateful to God, to whom I am rendering sacred service as my forefathers did, and with a clean conscience, never ceasing to remember you in my supplications night and day.

He did not believe that Jesus Christ was his God, nor that he should worship Jesus Christ or consider him equal to the Father:

Rom.1: 9 For God, to whom I render sacred service with my spirit in connection with the good news about his Son, is my witness of how without ceasing I always mention you in my prayers ...

And he made it clear that Jehovah, that God whom he worshiped, is the God of the whole world:

Rom.3:29 (...) is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of people of the nations? Yes, also of people of the nations. 30 Since God is one, he will declare circumcised people righteous as a result of faith and uncircumcised people righteous by means of their faith.

When Ananias was restoring Paul's sight, he said to him:

Acts 22:14 He said: ‘The God of our forefathers has chosen you to come to know his will and to see the righteous one and to hear the voice of his mouth, 15 because you are to be a witness for him to all men of the things you have seen and heard. 16 And now why are you delaying? Rise, get baptized, and wash your sins away by your calling on his name.’

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Re: Paul - after his conversion

Post #23

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Diogenes wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 10:41 pm Paul calls Jesus 'the Christ,' and the 'Son of God'
Yes, but Christ first said and confirmed those things about Himself.

If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God? John 10:35, 36

"...“Who do you say I am?”

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

[Jesus] replied, Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. (Matt 16:15-17)

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. John 3:17


and creates the theology of the 'Trinity.'


The trinity was created some time later by other men. Paul did not teach it. Indeed, he said that for us there is one God (the Father), and one Lord (the Christ). No trinity there.

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, [Jesus] Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 1Corinth 8:6

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ [Jesus], 1Timothy 2:5



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
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Re: Paul - after his conversion

Post #24

Post by Diogenes »

tam wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 12:13 pm
Diogenes wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 10:41 pm Paul calls Jesus 'the Christ,' and the 'Son of God'
Yes, but Christ first said and confirmed those things about Himself.

If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God? John 10:35, 36

"...“Who do you say I am?”

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

[Jesus] replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. (Matt 16:15-17)

For God did not sendHis Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. John 3:17
and creates the theology of the 'Trinity.'


The trinity was created some time later by other men. Paul did not teach it. Indeed, he said that for us there is one God (the Father), and one Lord (the Christ). No trinity there.

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, [Jesus] Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.1Corinth 8:6
.
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ [Jesus], 1Timothy 2:5
Not even Paul called Jesus 'God,' but the 'Son of God,' the "mediator," "the man." NOWHERE in the entirety of the Bible is the word "Trinity" used. The absurd and self contradictory concept of the trinity is simply not a Biblical one. As you wrote,
The trinity was created some time later by other men. Paul did not teach it.
It was made up by men, the men of the Roman Catholic church, adding to the words of scripture, a procedure condemned in Revelation.
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book....” (Rev. 22:18)

The three synoptic Gospels are devoid of any reference to Jesus as divine. This is a later assessment by men, not God. Jesus never claims divinity and generally referred to himself as the "Son of Man."
In Matthew 8:20 and Luke 9:58 Jesus states: "The foxes have holes, and the birds of the sky have nests, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay his head." This phrasing seems to tie in with the Old Testament prophetic expressions used by such prophets as Ezekiel, and it shows Jesus' understanding of himself as the "man" that God has singled out as a friend and representative.
The historical Jesus in recent research. Winona Lake, Ind.: Eisenbrauns. p. 337.
See also, The First Coming: How the Kingdom of God Became Christianity, Thomas Sheehan
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/384570
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Re: Paul - after his conversion

Post #25

Post by 2timothy316 »

Diogenes wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 10:41 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:54 pm I don't read in the Bible where Paul said that Jesus was God. He wrote that Jesus wasn't equal to God. (Philippians 1:5, 6)

At any rate are you saying that what is written in the New Testament (mostly written by Paul) isn't true? Do you know what forum you're in?
You're just talking semantics now. Paul calls Jesus 'the Christ,' and the 'Son of God' and creates the theology of the 'Trinity.' Paul goes on in Philippians[/i,] chapter 1 to treat Jesus as a god or demigod:
What is said is important. Jesus, while very powerful, isn't Almighty. What you see as mere semantics is important distinction between him and his God and Father.
Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.
To Live Is Christ
Yes, and I will rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance, as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.


In Colossians Paul declares "Christ is all and in all!" after stating he is seated at the right hand of God. Or do you contend Paul does not declare Jesus divine?
Christ is not all and in all because he is Almighty God but but because of his death all mankind belongs to Jesus Christ. (which btw if Paul taught Jesus was God why teach God can die?! Talk about a breakdown in logic.)
In any event, you sidestep the main point, that Paul and all his ravings come AFTER his psychotic break with reality.
. . . or did you forget logic applies in all forums?

Bible as the final authority here not logic. Logic doesn't have authority ever and doesn't always equal truth.
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pu ... -true.html

Calling something you read 'ravings' is an opinion, not fact.

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Re: Paul - after his conversion

Post #26

Post by Candle »

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #1]

He grew in his understanding that the Law and the Prophets were the explanation for the life and ministry of Jesus.

John 5:46, Luke 24:44, Acts 28:23

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