Paul - after his conversion

[Rose2020]

Hi
I am new here.

My question is about Paul. I am reading John Pollock's biography which I regard as excellent.
He writes that it was three years after the dramatic blindness and conversion that Paul began preaching and ministering.
I wonder how he grew in his knowledge during those preparatory years?
The disciples welcomed him upon his return to Damascus but the apostles were much more wary for a while. Yet those who first heard him preach at the synagogue were amazed at his knowledge and the difference in him.

Forgive me if I have any of the facts incorrect, but this is as I understand matters. I know Paul was a great scholar anyway, but even so, from what sources would he have built his knowledge of Jesus whilst he was not in touch with Jesus' closest followers?

[Rose2020]

As I read on, it becomes clearer. Paul had a great intellect so a good knowledge of scripture. After his Damascus Road experience, he quite correctly claimed he was an eyewitness of the resurrection and thus had authority as an apostle. He had powerfully felt the power of Christ .

He spent time with Peter, who had known Jesus first hand, to gain knowledge of 'the life of the Word'. I can imagine Paul drank Peter's words like an eager sponge.

The early church possessed an enormous wealth of Jesus' teachings and was very strict that all teaching must derive from eyewitnesses of Jesus himself, Paul acknowledged this.

When I reflect upon these things, I am reminded of the irritation I often feel when ignorant people say they think the Bible is a book of fairytales. That stems from utter ignorance. It is imperative to read the Book, you would think it impossible to read and not believe but sadly it is not so. I marvel at some atheists who have read the Bible with the express purpose to disprove same.

Paul and those like him dedicated their lives and deaths to the truth of Christ. Lucky are we that through the work of so many excellent Christians, we have the Bible.

I did not mean to say so much, but I needed to express my thoughts.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #11]

He spent time with Peter, who had known Jesus first hand, to gain knowledge of 'the life of the Word'. I can imagine Paul drank Peter's words like an eager sponge.

May I ask where you get this from? That Paul spent time with Peter to 'gain knowledge of the life of the Word'?


Thank you.

Peace again.

[Rose2020]

Hi
In John Pollock's biography of Paul.

[tam]

Peace to you!

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #13]

Ah, so you did not get that from what Paul said of himself. Or from any writing in the NT.


I asked, because (from my first post) Paul said that the gospel he preached was not of human origin, that he did not consult with men, that he preached the gospel for three years, and only after three years did he go and get acquainted with Peter. Paul also knew (from Christ) about the gentiles not needing to be circumcised even before the apostles addressed that question. I'm not attempting to put Paul above the apostles or vice versa. Christ is the One Teacher, Leader, Master. I am just emphasizing that a person can come to Christ and learn from Him, themselves (John 10:27). Even now. As Paul did.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Rose2020]

Good points.

[Bobcat]

Paul jumped on the fame of Jesus but used that fame to make up his own doctrine. Jesus was specific on what his followers would do. He sent them with the words of God from himself and all the prophets but the so called disciples never understood exactly what was required. He sent them as He was sent to continue His mission.

Reference;

“I have given them the words you gave me and they accepted them…” John 17

“As you sent me into the world so I have sent them….”

[Rose2020]

Continuing reflection on the story of Paul, I am blown away by his pure courage. He took up where Stephen had left off and used his very methods (according to John Pollock's biograph). The same Stephen whose terrible death Paul had stood by and watched only 4 years before. That takes guts. The kind only Christ can supply.

Amy atheists here could perhaps think about how and why anyone would do such a thing. This massive U turn from a highly educated man, who put aside his ego and previous life in order to spread the Good News of Christ. It poses a similar question as that of Jesus Himself, the famous trilemma of CS Lewis.

[Overcomer]

Bobcat wrote:

Paul jumped on the fame of Jesus but used that fame to make up his own doctrine.

That misconception has become very popular of late. But it is just that -- a misconception.

I wish I had the time to put this in my own words, but I'm afraid I don't. So here is an article that explains why Paul did NOT make up his own doctrines, but preached the gospel of Jesus Christ just as Christ himself presented it. I have heard it put this way: Paul did not create and give birth to the gospel; he was merely the midwife who helped bring it into and to the world.

Did Paul Invent Christianity?

By Kenneth Berding — May 06, 2019

Sometimes people skeptical of Christianity claim that the Apostle Paul, not Jesus, was the primary innovator of many things we think of as “Christian.” Some take it even further and claim that Paul so radically changed the teaching of Jesus that he, rather than Jesus, should be viewed as the true founder of Christianity. I’m sure that Paul would be appalled at such a suggestion. (Excuse the pun…)

Did Paul invent justification by faith (Rom 3:28; 5:1; Gal 2:16; 3:24)? No, he knew that Jesus had already spoken the following words in the parable of the Pharisee and tax collector: “But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other” (Luke 18:13-14).

Did Paul invent the idea of atonement, that is, that Christ died in our place (e.g., Rom 5:6-8)? No, Jesus said, “For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many” (Mark 10:45).

Did Paul invent the idea that Jesus is God (Rom 9:5; Phil 2:6; Titus 2:13)? No, Jesus asserted that he had the right to forgive sins (Matt 9:2-6) and claimed identity with God (John 8:54-59; 10:27-30). Paul’s trinitarian benediction (“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all,” 2 Cor 13:14) was preceded by Jesus’s charge to his disciples to baptize “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt 28:19).

Did Paul invent the idea that Jesus’s second coming out of heaven will be accompanied by angels and the blast of a trumpet (1 Thess 4:15)? No, Jesus had already indicated that this would happen (Matt 24:30-31). Paul is emphatic that his ideas are from Jesus when he says, “we declare to you by a word from the Lord” (1 Thess 4:15). Did Paul invent the idea that Jesus would come as “a thief in the night” (1 Thess 5:2)? No, that’s how Jesus described his future coming (Matt 24:43-44; Luke 12:39-40). What about Paul’s use of the metaphor of a woman in labor pains to describe the end of the world (1 Thess 5:3)? Nope, Jesus used that metaphor first, too (Matt 24:37-42; Mark 13:8).

Did Paul invent the idea that we should bless those who persecuted us (Rom 12:14)? No, he got it from Jesus (Luke 6:28). What about the idea of showing care to our enemies (Rom 12:18-21)? No, Jesus taught us to love our enemies (Luke 6:27 and 35).

Did Paul invent the idea that we should give “taxes to whom taxes are owed” (Rom 13:7)? No, Jesus had already replied to a question of whether Jews should pay taxes to Caesar, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s” (Mark 12:17 and parallels).

Did Paul invent the idea that we should stop judging each other (Rom 14:13)? No, Jesus famously warned, “Judge not, that you be not judged” (Matt 7:1).

Did Paul invent the idea that “those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel”? No, Paul said that Jesus had already taught (“the Lord commanded”—1 Cor 9:14; cf. 1 Tim 5:18) that “the laborer deserves his wages” (Luke 10:7; cf. Matt 10:10b).

Did Paul invent the idea that one who is married should not separate from his or her spouse (1 Cor 7:10)? No, Paul write that Jesus previously taught the same about marriage (“not I, but the Lord”) as we read in Mark 10:7-9 (and parallels), “What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Did Paul invent the idea that we should stop worrying, and instead pray to God about our needs (Phil 4:6)? No, Jesus had a lot to say about not being anxious (Matt 6:25ff.; Luke 12:22ff.).

Did Paul invent the idea of church discipline (1 Corinthians 5; Titus 3:10)? No, Jesus taught that we should warn a sinning brother or sister and then go on to discipline if we must (Matt 18:15-17).

Did Paul invent the idea that we should view ourselves as servants of Christ, that we have been entrusted with the knowledge of God, that we need to be faithful, that Christ will return as judge, that things hidden will come to light, and that we will one day receive praise (all of which are mentioned in 1 Cor 4:1-5)? No, Jesus communicated all these concepts in a single parable, the parable of the talents (Matt 25:14-30).

Did Paul invent the Lord’s Supper? We regularly quote from Paul’s description of Jesus’s words to his disciples at their final supper despite the fact that Paul wasn’t present at the meal (1 Cor 11:23-25). But these words of Paul parallel Jesus’s words as recorded in Mark 14:22-24; Matt 26:26-28; and Luke 22:19-20.

Did Paul invent the flesh and spirit dichotomy for which he is so well-known (e.g., Rom 8:4-9; Gal 5:16-17)? No, he undoubtedly knew that in the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus had already spoken the following words: “Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak” (Matt 26:41; Mark 14:38; cf. John 3:6; 6:63).

Did Paul invent the idea of praying to God as “Abba” (Gal 4:6, Rom 8:15)? No, he knew that the night before he was crucified, Jesus prayed, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will” (Mark 14:36).

Did Paul invent the crucifixion, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? No, he says he “received” what he passed on as most important: “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures” (1 Cor 15:3-4).

Did Paul make up Christian doctrine and practice? No. The things Paul sought, the thoughts he thought, and the words he taught were in agreement with and sometimes directly dependent upon the teaching of Jesus. Indeed, Paul helped the churches he founded to work out the implications of the death and resurrection of Christ. But Paul was a follower of Jesus, not the founder of Christianity. Paul was a disciple, not an innovator. Did Paul invent Christianity? No, Paul most certainly did not.[1]

This post and other resources are available at Kindle Afresh: The Blog and Website of Kenneth Berding.
Endnotes

[1] For deeper reflection on the relationship of Jesus and Paul, see especially the writings of David Wenham, and in particular Paul: Follower of Jesus or Founder of Christianity? (…or his shorter book Did St Paul Get Jesus Right?)

https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-book-b ... ristianity

The article at the link below doesn't just address the misconception that Paul invented Christianity as we know it, it also deals with the misconception that Constantine developed Christianity as we know it:

https://www.bethinking.org/bible/paul-c ... ristianity

[Diogenes]

It is fair to say Paul created Christianity. Jesus never asserted he was a god. This was Paul's doing.

What do we know about Paul from the New Testament?
We know he persecuted young followers of of the Jewish Jesus sect, and holds himself responsible for murder.
We know that before Saul reported the 'miraculous' events on the road to Damascus, he had been without food and drink for three days.
We know that such deprivation is likely to cause delusions and that Paul was delusional is buttressed by the fact he was blind and without speech for three days; and that he saw things unseen by those with him.

The entire basis for the divinity of Christ rests on the claim of one deluded, and the followers of the deluded one.

[2timothy316]

It is fair to say Paul created Christianity. Jesus never asserted he was a god. This was Paul's doing.

What do we know about Paul from the New Testament?
We know he persecuted young followers of of the Jewish Jesus sect, and holds himself responsible for murder.
We know that before Saul reported the 'miraculous' events on the road to Damascus, he had been without food and drink for three days.
We know that such deprivation is likely to cause delusions and that Paul was delusional is buttressed by the fact he was blind and without speech for three days; and that he saw things unseen by those with him.

The entire basis for the divinity of Christ rests on the claim of one deluded, and the followers of the deluded one.

I don't read in the Bible where Paul said that Jesus was God. He wrote that Jesus wasn't equal to God. (Philippians 1:5, 6)

At any rate are you saying that what is written in the New Testament (mostly written by Paul) isn't true? Do you know what forum you're in?