Jesus Christ: A Necessary Personality That God Cannot Do Without

[Miles]

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The common claim among Christians is that Jesus was necessarily put on/came down to Earth to save mankind from its sins so to allow the worthy to enter heaven. To do so it would be necessary to accept the divinity of Jesus and, to put it simply, either be saved by one's works (Catholic) or saved by one's faith (Protestant).

However, in as much as god is said to be omnipotent and can do anything logically possible could he not have dispensed with Jesus altogether and, knowing the heart of each individual, simply assign everyone to their proper destination, should there be more than one? That JC and all the attendant trappings of Christianity are wholly unnecessary, but likely concocted by power motivated autocrats who sought riches and despotic control over others?----my personal view of the motivating factors behind Christianity's success.


So, Jesus Christ: a truly necessary element that god could not do without so as to send people to heaven, OR a dispensable character in a religious fable?


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[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Miles in post #1]

Jesus the Messiah has no part in any religious fable.

God chose to create mankind in His own image. That plan included all that would be necessary to its success.

Which is predicated on Jesus the Messiah giving his life as a ransom for many.

It is mankind that cannot do without this gift.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #1]

Jesus the Messiah has no part in any religious fable.

You say tomato and I say tomahto.

God chose to create mankind in His own image.

So I've heard--not a very appealing god, is he.

That plan included all that would be necessary to its success.

What "its" are you talking about? And what success?

Which is predicated on Jesus the Messiah giving his life as a ransom for many.

And why is that? Couldn't an omnipotent god do this on his own without resorting to an intermediary? Or isn't god all that powerful after all?

It is mankind that cannot do without this gift.

Cannot do what?


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[We_Are_VENOM]

The common claim among Christians is that Jesus was necessarily put on/came down to Earth to save mankind from its sins so to allow the worthy to enter heaven.

It is a common claim of the New Testament.

To do so it would be necessary to accept the divinity of Jesus and, to put it simply, either be saved by one's works (Catholic) or saved by one's faith (Protestant).

Faith + works.

However, in as much as god is said to be omnipotent and can do anything logically possible could he not have dispensed with Jesus altogether and, knowing the heart of each individual, simply assign everyone to their proper destination, should there be more than one? That JC and all the attendant trappings of Christianity are wholly unnecessary, but likely concocted by power motivated autocrats who sought riches and despotic control over others?----my personal view of the motivating factors behind Christianity's success. So, Jesus Christ: a truly necessary element that god could not do without so as to send people to heaven, OR a dispensable character in a religious fable?

Genetic fallacy.

Besides, if there was a better way to do it, it would have been done.

Lets not fool ourselves into thinking that skeptics living thousands of years later, on internet debating forums, have come up with these brilliant/spectacular alternatives to plans that God had from eternity past.

[nobspeople]

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The common claim among Christians is that Jesus was necessarily put on/came down to Earth to save mankind from its sins so to allow the worthy to enter heaven. To do so it would be necessary to accept the divinity of Jesus and, to put it simply, either be saved by one's works (Catholic) or saved by one's faith (Protestant).

However, in as much as god is said to be omnipotent and can do anything logically possible could he not have dispensed with Jesus altogether and, knowing the heart of each individual, simply assign everyone to their proper destination, should there be more than one? That JC and all the attendant trappings of Christianity are wholly unnecessary, but likely concocted by power motivated autocrats who sought riches and despotic control over others?----my personal view of the motivating factors behind Christianity's success.


So, Jesus Christ: a truly necessary element that god could not do without so as to send people to heaven, OR a dispensable character in a religious fable?


.

I've always wondered why god uses people to do its bidding. For example:
A patient survives a surgery due to a wonderful surgeon. Instead of thanking the surgeon and modern medicine, they attribute 'god worked through the surgeon's hands'.
Why? Why can't god just *snap - done*?

In regards to your specific question, there's talk about 'jesus fulfilling prophecy and 'doing his job''. I would ask why did god even need prophecy? It didn't need it to create 'everything', so why now? To help people understand? Well, that's a fail in the larger picture.

So it would seem, jesus (not matter how great he was or wasn't) seems to be a pawn in the scheme of god (aka the plan) when it was necessary, only because god seems to have made it necessary.

[Miles]

The common claim among Christians is that Jesus was necessarily put on/came down to Earth to save mankind from its sins so to allow the worthy to enter heaven.

It is a common claim of the New Testament.

To do so it would be necessary to accept the divinity of Jesus and, to put it simply, either be saved by one's works (Catholic) or saved by one's faith (Protestant).

Faith + works.

However, in as much as god is said to be omnipotent and can do anything logically possible could he not have dispensed with Jesus altogether and, knowing the heart of each individual, simply assign everyone to their proper destination, should there be more than one? That JC and all the attendant trappings of Christianity are wholly unnecessary, but likely concocted by power motivated autocrats who sought riches and despotic control over others?----my personal view of the motivating factors behind Christianity's success. So, Jesus Christ: a truly necessary element that god could not do without so as to send people to heaven, OR a dispensable character in a religious fable?

Genetic fallacy.

Never heard of a fallacious genetic question before. Hmmmmm.

Besides, if there was a better way to do it, it would have been done.

So god is not omnipotent. He does have limits. He is needy. Okay, I can buy that. (Interesting that you know the workings of his mind so well.)


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[Miles]

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The common claim among Christians is that Jesus was necessarily put on/came down to Earth to save mankind from its sins so to allow the worthy to enter heaven. To do so it would be necessary to accept the divinity of Jesus and, to put it simply, either be saved by one's works (Catholic) or saved by one's faith (Protestant).

However, in as much as god is said to be omnipotent and can do anything logically possible could he not have dispensed with Jesus altogether and, knowing the heart of each individual, simply assign everyone to their proper destination, should there be more than one? That JC and all the attendant trappings of Christianity are wholly unnecessary, but likely concocted by power motivated autocrats who sought riches and despotic control over others?----my personal view of the motivating factors behind Christianity's success.


So, Jesus Christ: a truly necessary element that god could not do without so as to send people to heaven, OR a dispensable character in a religious fable?


.

I've always wondered why god uses people to do its bidding. For example:
A patient survives a surgery due to a wonderful surgeon. Instead of thanking the surgeon and modern medicine, they attribute 'god worked through the surgeon's hands'.
Why? Why can't god just *snap - done*?

And isn't it interesting that god has waited thousands of years to save such people---letting millions die in the interm----until there were the tools and human expertise to accomplish such feats on their own.

In regards to your specific question, there's talk about 'jesus fulfilling prophecy and 'doing his job''. I would ask why did god even need prophecy? It didn't need it to create 'everything', so why now? To help people understand? Well, that's a fail in the larger picture.

Agreed.

So it would seem, jesus (not matter how great he was or wasn't) seems to be a pawn in the scheme of god (aka the plan) when it was necessary, only because god seems to have made it necessary.

As the Big Kahuna he does seem to be vastly overrated; over-complicating jobs when truly it wasn't necessary.


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[2timothy316]

It is mankind that cannot do without this gift.

Cannot do what?

Defeat death and live forever.
(1 Cor 15:26)
(Rom. 5:17)

[Miles]

It is mankind that cannot do without this gift.

Cannot do what?

Defeat death and live forever.

Yeah, I can hardly wait.

................................


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[2timothy316]

It is mankind that cannot do without this gift.

Cannot do what?

Defeat death and live forever.

Yeah, I can hardly wait.

................................


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Even if that was what living forever was....which it is not. (Ps 37:29)

Death is nothing at all. (Ecc 9:5)
If that is what a person prefers, God will accommodate them.