For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

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Miles
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For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.

Consider:

Luke 1249-:53
49 Jesus continued speaking: “I came to bring fire to the world. I wish it were already burning! 50 There is a kind of baptism[ that I must suffer through. I feel very troubled until it is finished. 51 Do you think I came to give peace to the world? No, I came to divide the world! 52 From now on, a family of five will be divided, three against two, and two against three.

53
A father and son will be divided:
The son will turn against his father.
The father will turn against his son.
A mother and her daughter will be divided:
The daughter will turn against her mother.
The mother will turn against her daughter.
A mother-in-law and her daughter-in-law will be divided:
The daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
The mother-in-law will turn against her daughter-in-law.”


Luke 14:26

26 “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life!

Ever see anyone do any of the above? I haven't. In fact, Jesus makes a great prediction, which, honestly, I've also never seen happen.


Matthew 10:34-36
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble. 35 I have come to make this happen:

‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36 Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’


So, what's going on here? Have YOU turned against your mother or father and the other members of your family? Is no one a true follower of Jesus or can Christians simply disregard such troublesome verses?


Is Jesus simply an utter failure here?

.

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #21

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 7:53 pm
Miles wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 7:25 pm
"I have come to make this happen:" is a . . .


... quotation?


If so, could you source the quote with a reference and (if applicable) the translation.
It comes from Matthew 10:34-36, (ERV) which I quoted in the OP.

34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble. 35 I have come to make this happen:

‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36 Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’


Other Bibles preface the listing with: (partial quotes)

DLNT
For I came to cause-a-separation

CSB
For I came to turn a man against his father

KJV
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father

RSV
For I have come to set a man against his father,

MSG
“Don’t think I’ve come to make life cozy. I’ve come to cut—make a sharp knife-cut between son and father

PHILLIPS
“Never think I have come to bring peace upon the earth. No, I have not come to bring peace but a sword! For I have come to set a man against his own father

EXB
[L For] I have come ·so that ‘a son will be [L to turn a man] against his father,
.

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #22

Post by JehovahsWitness »

WHAT DID JESUS MEAN WHEN HE SAID HE CAME TO CAUSE DIVISION?
MATTHEW 10: 34, 35 - NWT

Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division [...]


Jesus was not instructing his disciples to turn against their family or friends , and certainly not abandon their dependants, but he indicated his message would evoke a strong reaction in people. Those that believed him would have to take a firm stand to obey His commandements and this, he predicted, would cause some (even members of their own family) to resent, even hate them.






JW




Did Jesus predictions amount to instructions for his disciples to turn against their family and friends?
viewtopic.php?p=1077076#p1077076

Is it Jehovahs Witness policy to abandon their families ?
viewtopic.php?p=1077059#p1077059
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #23

Post by tam »

Peace to you all,

And yes, truth causes division (between those who are for truth, who serve truth, who seek truth, who love truth...and those who do not want to know truth, who prefer a lie TO the truth... etc.) You don't even have to think about today (though this division happens today as well, as per the example given in my first post on this thread). Think about the Jews to whom Christ was speaking in those days. Some followed Him, some were against Him... but those who were for Christ (even just acknowledging that Jaheshua was the Messiah) could be put out of the synagogues. Surely you can all imagine that causing division within (and without) a household as well.

His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that [Jesus] was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. John 9:22


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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #24

Post by Rose2020 »

It means once you are a follower of Jesus, many will turn against you and things will never be easy again. I have found vehement opposition within even my own family, questioning looks from longtime friends.
Of course I do not care. My eternal salvation is far more important than the temporary relationships on this earth.

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #25

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Miles in post #1]

Of course Jesus is not a failure. He was just saying what would happen when his principles would be made evident. People would turn against those trying to follow Him. It is not what he would wish to happen, it just would, because many people don't want to follow Him and resent the people that want to.

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #26

Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 2:42 pm [Replying to Miles in post #1]

Of course Jesus is not a failure. He was just saying what would happen when his principles would be made evident.
His principles were already made evident. They're right there in the Bible for all to read. In several places no less.

He's saying he expects "The son will turn against his father. The father will turn against his son. A mother and her daughter will be divided: The daughter will turn against her mother. The mother will turn against her daughter. Etc., etc.." AND just how many families do you know of who have done this? Personally, I don 't know of any, and considering all the families of tight-knit Christians who go to church each Sunday, it strongly suggests to me that both he and his plan are failures.

.

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #27

Post by onewithhim »

Miles wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 3:32 pm
onewithhim wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 2:42 pm [Replying to Miles in post #1]

Of course Jesus is not a failure. He was just saying what would happen when his principles would be made evident.
His principles were already made evident. They're right there in the Bible for all to read. In several places no less.

He's saying he expects "The son will turn against his father. The father will turn against his son. A mother and her daughter will be divided: The daughter will turn against her mother. The mother will turn against her daughter. Etc., etc.." AND just how many families do you know of who have done this? Personally, I don 't know of any, and considering all the families of tight-knit Christians who go to church each Sunday, it strongly suggests to me that both he and his plan are failures.

.
Personally, I know of MANY families that have been divided because members of the family adhered to Christian principles and the rest didn't understand. There has been FIERCE opposition, some families ordering a Christian to leave the house and not return. Jesus' teachings are all there in the Bible, but the churches and other religious organizations have not taught them. Most people do not know that Jesus spoke against harming one's enemies (therefore no one should take up arms; Matthew 5:44), and the churches support wars, so people think a Christian is weird for not engaging in war. The Bible warns against heavy drinking and yet most people can hardly wait for a day and night where they can drink themselves silly. They don't understand a Christian's viewpoint on this and accuse them of being a goody two-shoes. The Bible speaks against pagan rituals and traditions of men, yet people, spurred on by the churches, practice pagan traditions (Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc.) and highly resent those who do not. The Bible says:

"The time that has passed by is sufficient for you to have done the will of the nations when you carried on in acts of brazen conduct, unbridled passions, overdrinking, wild parties, drinking bouts, and lawless idolatries. They are puzzled that you do not continue running with them in the same decadent course of debauchery, so they speak abusively of you." (I Peter 4:3,4)

And many Christians are kicked out of their families or, at the least, are persecuted mercilessly.

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #28

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Personally, I know of MANY families that have been divided because members of the family adhered to Christian principles and the rest didn't understand. There has been FIERCE opposition, some families ordering a Christian to leave the house and not return. Jesus' teachings are all there in the Bible, but the churches and other religious organizations have not taught them....

... And many Christians are kicked out of their families or, at the least, are persecuted mercilessly.
I truly do not mean offense, but it boggles the mind how a person (or people) can point a finger toward other people/other religions for doing these things (kicking people out; official or unofficial shunning; not teaching truth or teaching something different than what Christ taught), but at the same time be completely blind to the same practices being done in their religion and by its adherents.

“I have told you these things so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God."


They think they are doing a service to God, but they are not.



Peace again to you.
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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #29

Post by Tcg »

onewithhim wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 2:54 pm Most people do not know that Jesus spoke against harming one's enemies (therefore no one should take up arms; Matthew 5:44), and the churches support wars, so people think a Christian is weird for not engaging in war.
They probably have read the rest of Matthew or at least to chapter 13 and know what Jesus plans to have his angels do to Jesus' enemies. Jesus was no enemy loving hippie type. He was simply willing to wait to get his final revenge. As that old saying goes, revenge is a dish best served cold. Jesus certainly understood this and may even be the inspiration of this saying.


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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #30

Post by onewithhim »

tam wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:17 pm Peace to you,
Personally, I know of MANY families that have been divided because members of the family adhered to Christian principles and the rest didn't understand. There has been FIERCE opposition, some families ordering a Christian to leave the house and not return. Jesus' teachings are all there in the Bible, but the churches and other religious organizations have not taught them....

... And many Christians are kicked out of their families or, at the least, are persecuted mercilessly.
I truly do not mean offense, but it boggles the mind how a person (or people) can point a finger toward other people/other religions for doing these things (kicking people out; official or unofficial shunning; not teaching truth or teaching something different than what Christ taught), but at the same time be completely blind to the same practices being done in their religion and by its adherents.

“I have told you these things so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God."


They think they are doing a service to God, but they are not.



Peace again to you.
I'm talking about people being kicked out of their own homes by family members, which was called into question by one of our forum members. I was not talking about the Biblical shunning of individuals who committed sins unbecoming a Christian.

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