For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

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Miles
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For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.

Consider:

Luke 1249-:53
49 Jesus continued speaking: “I came to bring fire to the world. I wish it were already burning! 50 There is a kind of baptism[ that I must suffer through. I feel very troubled until it is finished. 51 Do you think I came to give peace to the world? No, I came to divide the world! 52 From now on, a family of five will be divided, three against two, and two against three.

53
A father and son will be divided:
The son will turn against his father.
The father will turn against his son.
A mother and her daughter will be divided:
The daughter will turn against her mother.
The mother will turn against her daughter.
A mother-in-law and her daughter-in-law will be divided:
The daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
The mother-in-law will turn against her daughter-in-law.”


Luke 14:26

26 “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life!

Ever see anyone do any of the above? I haven't. In fact, Jesus makes a great prediction, which, honestly, I've also never seen happen.


Matthew 10:34-36
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble. 35 I have come to make this happen:

‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36 Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’


So, what's going on here? Have YOU turned against your mother or father and the other members of your family? Is no one a true follower of Jesus or can Christians simply disregard such troublesome verses?


Is Jesus simply an utter failure here?

.

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #31

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:23 am
tam wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:17 pm Peace to you,
Personally, I know of MANY families that have been divided because members of the family adhered to Christian principles and the rest didn't understand. There has been FIERCE opposition, some families ordering a Christian to leave the house and not return. Jesus' teachings are all there in the Bible, but the churches and other religious organizations have not taught them....

... And many Christians are kicked out of their families or, at the least, are persecuted mercilessly.
I truly do not mean offense, but it boggles the mind how a person (or people) can point a finger toward other people/other religions for doing these things (kicking people out; official or unofficial shunning; not teaching truth or teaching something different than what Christ taught), but at the same time be completely blind to the same practices being done in their religion and by its adherents.

“I have told you these things so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God."


They think they are doing a service to God, but they are not.



Peace again to you.
I'm talking about people being kicked out of their own homes by family members, which was called into question by one of our forum members. I was not talking about the Biblical shunning of individuals who committed sins unbecoming a Christian.
Are you saying people are never kicked out of their own homes by jw family members?


Edited to add in a link that addresses and pretty much sums up the other matter (shunning for so-called 'sins unbecoming a Christian'):

viewtopic.php?p=1003949#p1003949


Peace again to you and to you all.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #32

Post by JehovahsWitness »

tam wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:15 pm Are you saying people are never kicked out of their own homes by jw family members?


Nobody can have absolute knowledge of every family situation so the question cannot be answered except in the light of Jehovah's Witness policy and practices:
  • Jehovahs Witnesses do not make it a practice to force the family head out of their own home (as in the home they themselves pay /have paid for )*

  • No family member would be put out of the home solely under the motive following Christ.

  • Joining another faith is not considered a legitimate reason to expulse a family member from the home.
* A possible exception might be under legal advice, for their own sagety, if, for example, the Witness (or their children) were victim of sexual or physical abuse
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #33

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:03 am
tam wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:15 pm Are you saying people are never kicked out of their own homes by jw family members?


Nobody can have absolute knowledge of every family situation so the question cannot be answered except in the light of Jehovah's Witness policy and practices:
You don't need absolute knowledge to be able to know that it happens. Did owh have absolute knowledge to know that it happens in other families?
Jehovahs Witnesses do not make it a practice to force the family head out of their own home (as in the home they themselves pay /have paid for )*
No one can make it a practice of forcing a person out of a home that they, themselves, paid for.
No family member would be put out of the home solely under the motive following Christ.
I'm not sure that takes into account the fact that those family members might not believe that person was following Christ, but might instead believe that person is wrong/disloyal/apostate.

But there are people in all religions who will cast out (or shun or persecute in some way) family members who choose to leave their religion to join a different religion (or no religion). A Catholic family might do this to a family member who chooses to be a jw. A JW family might do this to a family member who chooses to be catholic. Regardless of the official position. My point was that your own people/religion do the same things that OWH mentioned about other people/religions.

Joining another faith is not considered a legitimate reason to expulse a family member from the home.
Even if the above statement is true, does that mean it never happens? We have certainly seen from previous discussions that official and unofficial shunning does occur, even if unofficial shunning is not an official position or requirement.

* A possible exception might be under legal advice, for their own sagety, if, for example, the Witness (or their children) were victim of sexual or physical abuse
Of course, but falls beyond the scope of what we were discussing.



Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #34

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Joining another faith is not considered [as outlines in published policy] a legitimate reason to expulse a family member from the home.
tam wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 11:15 am
Even if the above statement is true, does that mean it never happens?
The statement is verifiably true, there is no question about that.

Nobody except God is in a position to judge the personal decisions (that do not impact the congregation ) which people make on an individual level. Just as someone might feel compelled to put a non-dependent family member out of the home if they threatened their physical security, they may deem certain behaviours a threat to their emotional or spiritual well being. Nobody should be forced to live in a situation they find mentally or emotionally unbearable just to avoid their religion being criticised.


That said, no doubt there are indeed those that act outside of the mandates of our faith; if they do so in areas where disciplinary measures can be taken, we have a mechanism in place that this can be done. If they do so in the exercise of their personal freedoms, they will, like us all, answer to God.

Our organisation cannot be held responsible for the exercise of free will.


JW

RELATED POSTS


Can a Jehovah's Witness join another church without being disfellowshipped?
viewtopic.php?p=1066416#p1066416

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #35

Post by onewithhim »

tam wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:15 pm Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:23 am
tam wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:17 pm Peace to you,
Personally, I know of MANY families that have been divided because members of the family adhered to Christian principles and the rest didn't understand. There has been FIERCE opposition, some families ordering a Christian to leave the house and not return. Jesus' teachings are all there in the Bible, but the churches and other religious organizations have not taught them....

... And many Christians are kicked out of their families or, at the least, are persecuted mercilessly.
I truly do not mean offense, but it boggles the mind how a person (or people) can point a finger toward other people/other religions for doing these things (kicking people out; official or unofficial shunning; not teaching truth or teaching something different than what Christ taught), but at the same time be completely blind to the same practices being done in their religion and by its adherents.

“I have told you these things so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God."


They think they are doing a service to God, but they are not.



Peace again to you.
I'm talking about people being kicked out of their own homes by family members, which was called into question by one of our forum members. I was not talking about the Biblical shunning of individuals who committed sins unbecoming a Christian.
Are you saying people are never kicked out of their own homes by jw family members?

No I'm not saying that. You missed the whole meaning of my discussion with (I believe it was) Miles. He said he never hears of people who are Christians being thrown out of their homes. Christians---not willful sinners. This has happened innumerable times, especially in the last 100+ years when Christians clearly identified with Jehovah's Witnesses. This was not a discussion about shunning deliberate sinners.

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #36

Post by Rose2020 »

I certainly am a follower of Jesus Christ. I depend on Him to judge me. He knows my heart and that I do my best. I am not worried by anyone else's opinion as it doesn't matter.

We cannot be perfect. Jesus asks us to trust in Him. It really is that simple.

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #37

Post by onewithhim »

Rose2020 wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 10:48 am I certainly am a follower of Jesus Christ. I depend on Him to judge me. He knows my heart and that I do my best. I am not worried by anyone else's opinion as it doesn't matter.

We cannot be perfect. Jesus asks us to trust in Him. It really is that simple.
That is wonderful that you are following Jesus. Did you realize that he follows his God and Father, Jehovah? (John 20:17) He seeks to make his Father's name known throughout the earth (John 17:6,26), and it stands to reason that his followers would do that also. (I Peter 2:21) The Father, Jehovah, is the Most High (Psalm 83:18,KJV), and His name is in the Bible 7,000 times. Some men have taken it out and substitute it with "LORD" in all capital letters. Jesus said that he does what the Father tells him to do, so his Father is the one calling all the shots....and Jesus follows Him. (John 5:19; John 8:28) So we have two Persons that love us and care about us: Jesus and his God and Father, Jehovah.

Keep up the good work! Have a great day.

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #38

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #37]

Hi
Yes I do my best.
So may I ask, are you a Jehovah's Witness? Just curious.
Though it makes no difference to me what denominations people are, as long as they accept Christ as Saviour.

To answer the original question of this topic. Yes indeed several people in my family and friends do not understand my Christian faith but no matter. It is not their approval I need, they are not with me for all eternity after all.
This life is fairly brief.

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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #39

Post by Miles »

Rose2020 wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 12:12 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #37]

Hi
Yes I do my best.
So may I ask, are you a Jehovah's Witness? Just curious.
Though it makes no difference to me what denominations people are, as long as they accept Christ as Saviour.

To answer the original question of this topic. Yes indeed several people in my family and friends do not understand my Christian faith but no matter. It is not their approval I need, they are not with me for all eternity after all.
So why do you think you'll be one of the 144,000 who gets to spend eternity in heaven* and your family and friends won't? After all, the odds are that none of you will even get close. If I was you I'd prepare for warm weather.


This life is fairly brief.
"Fairly"!!!!

Image


* The number onewithhim and associates believe will ever be seated.


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Re: For Christians. Are You A Follower Of Jesus? It's Highly Doubtful

Post #40

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to Miles in post #39]

If I was you I would worry about your own fate.

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