Do animals have spirit?

[Inquirer]

I have two Italian Greyhounds, here's a picture of them:

Are these animals just lumps of matter or is there something more to them? Is it only people that are not lumps of matter?

[JehovahsWitness]

So, do you believe ... your animation appears to contradict what you said. You said that a soul is equivalent to a body, but then your animation suggests that a soul is a body + spirit.

Yes the SOUL strictly speaking has to be ALIVE to qualify as such.

I was simplyfying it to the point I thought you could understand. People are so wrapped up in this immortal invisible soul nonsense (no offense) they find it mentally challenging, even shocking, to seperate the word to its basic meaning : a LIVING breathing organsim.

Since the SPIRIT (the energy source) is what MAKES a body live, strictly speaking without the life force you don't have a soul you have a corpse.

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #1]

I agree that the Bible is accurate because science nowadays supports the view that there is a spirit in all living organisms. It can be confirmed by special devices that make spirits visible to the human eye and it is set up as a cat or rat, for instance, is euthanized by an overdose of a drug and then putting the dead body of the animal at a different location, now showing a spirit at one location and the dead animal at another.

To answer the other person objecting that it's impossible to reanimate dead bodies, that's because it's harder to go the other way because the dead bodies have started to decay and become unusable as hosts to the spirits have left the dead bodies in the first place. (They may reincarnate, however, but that's a different story. As ever before, you may ask the computers the questions and get the confirmation of what I've answered here, now.)

Beautiful, isn't it?

PS:
1. I've written about these devices that make spirits visible to the human eye as being like thermal imaging, making heat visible and infra-red, making it possible to see in the dark and low-light image intensifiers, making it possible to see in low-light conditions.
2. Also remember that radiology relates to all of the Electromagnetic Spectrum and not only the medical uses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum, EM on Wiki.
3. Those who deny the existence of afterlife and spirits or souls are relating to old science and not current science. They are outdated. We are also going to get used to talk to trees and bushes and other in some time, that's the joy of science now.

[Difflugia]

Metephorically speaking it'is sometimes refered to as the life of the whole.

Kind of like how theological constructs are sometimes metaphorically referred to as biblical, I suppose.

[Inquirer]

I have two Italian Greyhounds, here's a picture of them:

Are these animals just lumps of matter or is there something more to them? Is it only people that are not lumps of matter?

They are very cute doggies.

If we are to discuss whether they have souls or not, we must first establish what "soul" means.

Yes they are good lads, great companions, not large, about 19lbs or so.

Well I never said "soul" and that's because that word does not mean what many think it means. The terms for "soul" and "spirit" are different. God is never spoken of as having a "soul" for example.

The term "soul" refers more to our physical existence, material bodies it seems.

But "spirit" is what gives us our mind, our will, our ability to do good or bad, it is not material, not governed by laws of nature, still much of this is indeed a deep mystery.

The terms still seem rather vaguely defined to me.

Yes this is true and hard to avoid. We can only define things in terms of other things and so fundamental things are hard to define simply because they cannot be reduced to other things.

Defining "spirit" is hard when spirit underpins all else, that is to say if everything else is defined by spirit then its hard to define spirit.

[Inquirer]

[Replying to Inquirer in post #1]

Humans are animals so if humans have spirit, animals have spirit. It's not terribly complex. Of course, if the concept is absurd, it is absurd even if some pretend that humans aren't animals.

Tcg

Sure some regard people as animals, some classify things in such a way that people can be regarded as animals but it all depends on the classification system. Since only people keep other organisms as pets and only people cook and only people play chess and only people write and only people play musical instruments and only people torture other organisms for amusement then - based on these criteria - people are not animals they are unique and unmatched. It's not terribly complex.

[Kylie]

Okay, so by your definitions, a SOUL is a synonym for organism.

Yes that is correct.

Think of the organisim like a computer. The electricity doesn't carry any information or trace of the computer ... all that is in the computer itself which is made of hardware (the metal/ plastic and glass screen you can see and touch) and software (the program written in code and stored and expressed through the hardware).

So, do you believe that my personality is just an emergent property of my squishy fleshy body?

Yes, that is exactly it. You brain stores your memory, your mind and personality is complex but it all comes down to what is possible when your "software" your programming is powered up.

There are limits to the analogy of course: a computer is limited and can essentially only do what the programmer put in it while you (when powered up) become a self-generating, imaginative, autonimous free-willed organism. It is a testimony to the Creator that each organisme, when powered beccomes a unique exceptional living intelligent being which in the case of humans, reflects the personality of the Divine One.

But like a computer, when the hardware and software is destroyed nothing of the person survives.

So then, just to make sure I've got your position correct, the soul is just the physical body as well as the thoughts. In the analogy, it is the computer and the programs that are running on it. The spirit is nothing more than the electricity that powers it all. Correct?

I just want to make sure that we are on the same page here.

[Kylie]

So, do you believe ... your animation appears to contradict what you said. You said that a soul is equivalent to a body, but then your animation suggests that a soul is a body + spirit.

Yes the SOUL strictly speaking has to be ALIVE to qualify as such.

I was simplyfying it to the point I thought you could understand. People are so wrapped up in this immortal invisible soul nonsense (no offense) they find it mentally challenging, even shocking, to seperate the word to its basic meaning : a LIVING breathing organsim.

Since the SPIRIT (the energy source) is what MAKES a body live, strictly speaking without the life force you don't have a soul you have a corpse.

So your animation is saying it has to be a LIVING body is soul (the physical body) and spirit (the stuff that keeps it alive).

[Kylie]

I have two Italian Greyhounds, here's a picture of them:

Are these animals just lumps of matter or is there something more to them? Is it only people that are not lumps of matter?

They are very cute doggies.

If we are to discuss whether they have souls or not, we must first establish what "soul" means.

Yes they are good lads, great companions, not large, about 19lbs or so.

Well I never said "soul" and that's because that word does not mean what many think it means. The terms for "soul" and "spirit" are different. God is never spoken of as having a "soul" for example.

The term "soul" refers more to our physical existence, material bodies it seems.

But "spirit" is what gives us our mind, our will, our ability to do good or bad, it is not material, not governed by laws of nature, still much of this is indeed a deep mystery.

The terms still seem rather vaguely defined to me.

Yes this is true and hard to avoid. We can only define things in terms of other things and so fundamental things are hard to define simply because they cannot be reduced to other things.

Defining "spirit" is hard when spirit underpins all else, that is to say if everything else is defined by spirit then its hard to define spirit.

SO you are asking me to accept the existence of spirits on faith?

[JehovahsWitness]

So then, just to make sure I've got your position correct, the soul is just the physical body as well as the thoughts. In the analogy, it is the computer and the programs that are running on it. The spirit is nothing more than the electricity that powers it all. Correct?

I just want to make sure that we are on the same page here.

Yes. That is what the bible says. The spirit (ruah) is never spoken if as carrying the thoughts and personality of the person after death.

DEATH Biblically at death, a person ceases to exist, with no part of them (the person) surviving.


WHAT HAPPENS TO THE SPIRIT ?

Of course when your computer breaks down, electricity doesn't cease to exist, so the bible speaks of the spirit "returning" to God, as in the energy remains to be used elsewhere. Just as if you unplug your computer the units of energy can now be used to power your toaster or the vaccume cleaner. Or a new computer.

WHAT HAPPEN TO THE SOUL ?

It ceased to exist anywhere. The expression "immortal soul" is nowhere to be found in the bible because souls are physical flesh and blood organisme which can never me immortal.


Is this clear or is it still a little confusing?

[Difflugia]

Biblically at death, a person ceases to exist, with no part of them (the person) surviving.

Once again, "biblically" is used here to metaphorically mean the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses rather than what the Bible literally says. 1 Samuel 28 is a story about the spirit of Samuel talking to Saul after it was summoned from beyond the grave. That's why the Witness translators of the NWT added scare quotes to the biblical use of Samuel's name. What the Bible actually says is theologically uncomfortable for their doctrine if Samuel continued to exist in some form after death.

1 Samuel 28:15, NWT:

Then “Samuel” said to Saul: “Why have you disturbed me by having me brought up?” Saul replied: “I am in great trouble. The Phi·lis′tines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me and no longer answers me, either through the prophets or in dreams; so that is why I am calling on you to let me know what I should do.”

NRSV:

Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams; so I have summoned you to tell me what I should do.”