Do animals have spirit?

[Inquirer]

I have two Italian Greyhounds, here's a picture of them:

Are these animals just lumps of matter or is there something more to them? Is it only people that are not lumps of matter?

[theophile]

I agree, and specifically there is scripture stating that animals do have spirit:

Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?

This is clearly revealing that animals have a spirit, mysterious and profound though that idea is to us.

So, what is this religious "spirit" Christians talk about? How about a good definition and cogent evidence of its existence.


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I think you can get a thousand answers and rightly so given the many aspects. But look, the original reference (let's start from there) is Genesis 1:2 when the ruach Elohim (/spirit of God) is hovering over the waters. It's essentially a wind / breath. Hence earlier posts that define it as the breath of life. (Not just for humans and animals but plants and other lifeforms too, all of which have a rhythm, or give and take, that breathing represents.)

If you want my personal opinion, it's helpful to think of spirit as, say, the spirit of an age. As a movement (like Me Too). As something that can sweep by us, like a wind, and in the process sweep us up. It's something we can get caught up and participate in. That we can give our power to. With a certain value or affirmation at its core. (Just like Me Too which affirms everyone's right not to be harassed or worse by those with power.)

Further, I would argue the Spirit (of God) is that which affirms life in all its forms. To be in the Spirit is to focus all one's efforts to that end.

Thanks for your honest effort, but fortunately I think you've left more needing explanation than has been cleared up.


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What, do you want me to write you an essay? Ask a question and I'll clarify.

[Miles]

... That souls would include all creatures, even insects and arachnids. Having been told that souls only inhabit humans, it's something I've never heard of before.

Well it seems as if we dont know everything then, do we?

Indeed we don't. While some people believe souls only inhabit people, others believe people, insects, and spiders ARE actual souls themselves. And it's those who believe souls are people, etc, who are left to explain those Biblical passages that make a distinction between the soul and the person. Passages such as

Psalm 23:3
He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Acts 2:27
For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption.

Matthew 16:26
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

Mark 8:36
For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?

Deuteronomy 6:5
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

Verses clearly leaving no doubt that the soul and person it inhabits are two distinct entities. That "Biblically neither people nor animals HAVE a soul (as if a soul is a seperate entity) animals and humans ARE souls " is Biblically absurd.

[I know "soul" doesn't appear in all these verses in the NWT bible; but that's alright because in the vast majority of Bibles "soul" is used, giving me reason enough to include them as valid examples.]

Miles
And that as I understand your statement about the active force/power/energy that animates all living things, to my way of thinking spirit would most likely refer to food.

No we are not animated by food, we are energized by it.

But if food is the "force/power" that energizes the animation of all living things, as you said

"SPIRIT: The active force/power/energy that animates all living things."

Could it not be said that food is the source of the animation? I mean; No food = No energy = No animation = Lifelessness. So when it comes right down to it, spirit is inexorably tied to food. So much so that food and spirit can be considered one and the same.

If there is any confusion stuff food into a corpes and see if it comes to life. Biblically, the spirit is that which causes us to live.

And this little nugget can be found in what chapter and verse?

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[JehovahsWitness]

...explain those Biblical passages that make a distinction between the soul and the person. Passages such as

Psalm 23:3
He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Acts 2:27
For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption.

Matthew 16:26
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

Mark 8:36
For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?

Deuteronomy 6:5
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

They are all idiomatic expressions. Soul = life [as a soul ]

[JehovahsWitness]

No food = No energy = No animation = Lifelessness. So when it comes right down to it, spirit is inexorably tied to food.

Yes, they are indeed linked : physical beings cannot sustains life without food/water air...

. ...So much so that food and spirit can be considered one and the same.

They can be considered one and the same ... it's nonsense to do so (and not biblical) but... be my guest. As I said, the differentation comes when we try to animate that which is dead with ...food. At which point de see that food cannot animated a dead body, food cannot give life, it can only keep it going once it is already alive.

[JehovahsWitness]

Biblically, the spirit is that which causes us to live

And this little nugget can be found in what chapter and verse?

PSALMS 36:9; GENESIS 2:7

[theophile]

Having been told that souls only inhabit humans, it's something I've never heard of before.

That's the distinction between monism and dualism. Monism is the idea that a person (or animal, or whatever) is a unified, inseparable whole. Dualism means that the body and soul or spirit, though combined, are separable. This affects Christianity because the Old Testament is predominantly (though not exclusively) monistic, but the New Testament is predominantly (but again, not exclusively) dualistic.

An interesting exercise is to use a Hebrew concordance to find verses containing the Hebrew word נֶ֔פֶשׁ (nephesh), then note whether the language is broadly of being a soul or of having one.

An overall pattern is that in the earliest books of the Pentateuch, Genesis, Exodus, and Numbers, nephesh is overwhelmingly monistic and synonymous with words like "person" or "being." In Leviticus, we just begin to see a hint of dualistic distinction. That's where we have the first prohibition against eating blood and 17:11 tells us that it's because "the nephesh of the flesh is in the blood."

Deuteronomy shows a big shift in language. It's about half-and-half "being" and "having." While much of the language is similar to (and likely patterned on) wording in Genesis and Exodus, nephesh regularly takes on such meanings as "life" and "mind" that are components of one's being, rather than the totality of it. Deuteronomy 6:5 is a prime example, where Israelites are told to "love Yahweh your god with your entire heart, your entire nephesh, and your entire strength."

As the Deuteronomistic history progresses through the books of Samuel and into Kings, the Deuteronomist relies less and less on earlier documents and nephesh becomes overwhelmingly dualistic, appearing most often in the form of a possessive (i.e. נַפְשִׁי, "my soul").

Thanks for that.

I wonder though your thoughts on the distinction between nephesh and ruach. Or soul versus spirit if we use those labels. 'Soul' has a lot of modern implications to it that I think we should be wary of when it comes to spirit. i.e., Where soul is thought of in highly personal terms, as arguably the eternal essence of a person (/thing), I would suggest that spirit is something that can be shared across persons (/things). It can be a common ground or something we are all filled with or 'in'. Hence the wind or breath-like form that it originally takes.

I think the answer of whether animals have spirit is completely different from whether animals have a soul.

[Difflugia]

I wonder though your thoughts on the distinction between nephesh and ruach. Or soul versus spirit if we use those labels. 'Soul' has a lot of modern implications to it that I think we should be wary of when it comes to spirit. i.e., Where soul is thought of in highly personal terms, as arguably the eternal essence of a person (/thing), I would suggest that spirit is something that can be shared across persons (/things). It can be a common ground or something we are all filled with or 'in'. Hence the wind or breath-like form that it originally takes.

I think the answer of whether animals have spirit is completely different from whether animals have a soul.

If you're asking my opinion about reality, I don't think there's anything qualitative that marks a bright-line separation betwen human beings and other mammals. I also don't think there's any sort of separable "life force" as a soul, spirit, or animus, so this discussion is based on a theological or philosophical fiction. I don't think there's such a thing as a dualistic soul or spirit, but if humans have one, whatever it is, so do greyhounds.

The various biblical authors have differing ideas of soul and spirit, though, often reinterpreting older views and expressions in different ways. The "spirit of God," for example, is a physical wind in Genesis, the source of prophecy in the later Old Testament, and the disembodied Holy Spirit in the New Testament. That's a different discussion, though.

[Miles]

...explain those Biblical passages that make a distinction between the soul and the person. Passages such as

Psalm 23:3
He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Acts 2:27
For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption.

Matthew 16:26
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

Mark 8:36
For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?

Deuteronomy 6:5
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

They are all idiomatic expressions. Soul = life [as a soul ]

Other than yourself and perhaps the JW organization, who says "soul" is an idiom for "life [as a soul ]"? Obviously not the Bible.

No food = No energy = No animation = Lifelessness. So when it comes right down to it, spirit is inexorably tied to food.

Yes, they are indeed linked : physical beings cannot sustains life without food/water air...

. ...So much so that food and spirit can be considered one and the same.

They can be considered one and the same ... it's nonsense to do so (and not biblical) but... be my guest. As I said, the differentation comes when we try to animate that which is dead with ...food. At which point de see that food cannot animated a dead body, food cannot give life, it can only keep it going once it is already alive.

But no one is animating the dead, with food or without. As far as I, science, and verifiable history are concerned animating the dead has never happened, despite Biblical claims to the contrary. So claiming that spirit animates the dead is specious assertion, having no more veracity than Noah's Flood.

Biblically, the spirit is that which causes us to live

And this little nugget can be found in what chapter and verse?

PSALMS 36:9; GENESIS 2:7

Hmm. Out of the 55 Bibles I checked, including your own, "spirit" isn't mention once in PSALMS 36:9; and only twice (and parenthetically at that) in GENESIS 2:7. So, so much for "Biblically, the spirit is that which causes us to live."


.

[JehovahsWitness]

...explain those Biblical passages that make a distinction between the soul and the person. Passages such as

Psalm 23:3
He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Acts 2:27
For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption.

Matthew 16:26
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

Mark 8:36
For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?

Deuteronomy 6:5
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

They are all idiomatic expressions. Soul = life [as a soul ]

...who says "soul" is an idiom for "life [as a soul ]"? Obviously not the Bible.

What do'you mean "obviously not the bible"? You think your four words amount to a counter argument?! Prove me wrong (preferably with words not hamburger).




JW

[JehovahsWitness]

As far as I, science, and verifiable history are concerned animating the dead has never happened...

So what? Who cares!? We are not discussing what science says. There is, I believe a science subforum but we are in the subforum Theology, Doctrine and Dogma and we are discussing what the BIBLE says.