What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

[William]

IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #68]

Whether YHVH allowed the tree to remain as a permanent reminder of YHVH's universal sovereignty or not, what the tree represented would remain an eternal truth obedient mankind would forever respect.

A religious icon in other words.

However, there is no such tree known to exist, so this would signify that these iconic trees were either removed from the Earth, or they were simply allowed to remain and their fruit be eaten, as their role as props for what you refer to as "Edenic Test", had served the purpose.

[JehovahsWitness]

The reason folk resort to religious icons is because they are attempting to gain that communion with YHVH through those mediums.

Not necessarily. Did God not command the Israelites keep an ARK and retain certain physical items inside as a memorial to certain events? They were obviously not used as [spirit] mediums since using such things was prohibited by law. Arguably the TEMPLE itself was a physical reminder of Jehovah's presence, so it is unbiblical to argue that physical memorials have to be used as spirit mediums.

Would preserving the TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND BAD have made it an ICON ?
viewtopic.php?p=1104388#p1104388

Would preserving the TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND BAD have made it an MEDIUM ? [this post]
viewtopic.php?p=1104581#p1104581

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

ADAM , , THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND BAD and ... FREE WILL,

[JehovahsWitness]

... these iconic trees were either removed from the Earth, or they were simply allowed to remain and their fruit be eaten...

This is true. Since Adam and Eve were expulsed from the garden (and re-entry barred), eating from them would would have been impossible. The trees would have been destroyed by the global flood.

... their role as props for what you refer to as "Edenic Test", had served the purpose.

The trees would indeed have served their purpose, that is correct. Your reference them to being props is misnomer (see below)

CAN THE TREES IN EDEN PROPERLY BE REFERED TO AS PROPS?

A PROP [noun] is something that sustains or SUPPORTS. Gods sovereinty can never need support since he is the Almighty and needs nothing or nobody to maintain his position. So it would be biblically inaccurate to refer to the trees in Eden as propos.

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #72]

Q: Why would any personality in communion with YHVH require something [icons] outside of their self to remind them they are in communion with YHVH?

The reason folk resort to religious icons is because they are attempting to gain that communion with YHVH through those mediums.

Not necessarily. Did YHVH not command the Israelites keep an ARK and retain certain physical items inside as a memorial to certain events?

YHVH is purported by the religious writers to have "commanded" many things. Such claims are to be tested before consigning truth or falseness to them.
If such claims cannot be tested, then they are best placed aside rather than consigned true or false.

When In Doubt - Set It Aside

They were obviously not used as [spirit] mediums since using such things was prohibited by law.

Then if they were prohibited by any law YHVH commanded , they would not have been commanded by YHVH to break such prohibition , even if however the orders were given, were done so in the name of YHVH.
Unless one can show that there are laws YHVH commanded that these particular humans keep, where only for specific temporary measures. They were made to be unmade.

Arguably the TEMPLE itself was a physical reminder of Jehovah's presence, so it is unbiblical to argue that physical memorials have to be used as spirit mediums.

Q: Is YHVH a Spirit?
Q: Was YHVH concerned in saving the temple from Roman destruction?
Q: Did a biblical author lie about human forms being the temple of the spirit YHVH?
Q: Was a biblical author incorrect to write that the spirit shall return to YHVH, who gave it?

Q: Can the reader not understand that religious icons can be used to contain contradictions and that the contradictions can also enflame human emotions and cause those humans affected, to point fingers in argument against one another, as to which 'truth' to follow after - which allows for the religious hierarchy who created these icons, to go unnoticed, because their inventions are never questioned. since they claim these derive from YHVH?

Q: How are we to test such spirits, by jumping the gun and giving them a free pass, that a test is not required of them?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #72]

Q: Why would any personality in communion with YHVH require something [icons] outside of their self to remind them they are in communion with YHVH?

The reason folk resort to religious icons is because they are attempting to gain that communion with YHVH through those mediums.

Not necessarily. Did YHVH not command the Israelites keep an ARK and retain certain physical items inside as a memorial to certain events?

YHVH is purported by the religious writers to have "commanded" many things.

Yes including the above. CONCLUSION According to scripture Jehovah (YHWH) has commanded physical items to be preserved as memorials without permitting them to be used as a medium.



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

.

Arguably the TEMPLE itself was a physical reminder of Jehovah's presence, so it is unbiblical to argue that physical memorials have to be used as spirit mediums.

Q: Is YHVH a Spirit?
Q: Was YHVH concerned in saving the temple from Roman destruction?
Q: Did a biblical author lie about human forms being the temple of the spirit YHVH?
Q: Was a biblical author incorrect to write that the spirit shall return to YHVH, who gave it?

Q: Can the reader not understand that religious icons can be used to contain contradictions and that the contradictions can also enflame human emotions and cause those humans affected, to point fingers in argument against one another, as to which 'truth' to follow after - which allows for the religious hierarchy who created these icons, to go unnoticed, because their inventions are never questioned. since they claim these derive from YHVH?

Q: How are we to test such spirits, by jumping the gun and giving them a free pass, that a test is not required of them?

I do not see the relevance of any of these questions. What is your point?

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #73]

However, there is no such tree known to exist, so this would signify that these iconic trees were either removed from the Earth, or they were simply allowed to remain and their fruit be eaten, as their role as props for what you refer to as "Edenic Test", had served the purpose.

This is true. The trees would have been destroyed by the global flood.

Like Atlantis was?
Nope.

Seeds are remarkably resilient to floods and arguable floods are required as a means of spreading them around more effectively than humans subduing the Earth would have been.

A PROP [noun] is something that sustains or SUPPORTS. Gods sovereinty can never need support since he is the Almighty and needs nothing or nobody to maintain his position. So it would be biblically inaccurate to refer to the trees in Eden as propos.

The way my mind sees experience, is that all things are props. There is no appropriate reason as to why I should be forbidden to do so.

As we know, YHVH encodes seeds with the means to become trees when the circumstance present them the opportunity to germinate.

Those potential trees can stay dormant for long periods of time - as YHVH designed them to do.

So "It is a 'no' from me at this stage, that the trees would have been destroyed by the global flood.

The only way I can see that any flood would destroy the trees, would be if the fruit of those trees were seedless.

The idea is intriguing...but since YHVH planted them, seed was obviously YHVHs preferred method - re creating Eden.

And because we know that seed begets seed, it would be the rational thing to do, to accept it likely the two special trees in the middle of Eden, produced seeded fruit.

Since Adam and Eve were expulsed from the garden (and re-entry barred), eating from them would would have been impossible.

On that note, Adam had opportunity to conceal the seed of those trees, upon his person, and so they could have been smuggled out of the garden, and planted by Adam once he found some suitable land to till, as per his instructions by YHVH to Till the Land.

A PROP [noun] is something that sustains or SUPPORTS. Gods sovereinty can never need support since he is the Almighty and needs nothing or nobody to maintain his position. So it would be biblically inaccurate to refer to the trees in Eden as propos.

In My Mind, I understand all things experienced as things, to being props,

As I understand that, it is not biblically forbidden to see things in that manner and even if it were, I would question the validity of that which forbids it and seek to test it's Spirit.

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #76]

I do not see the relevance of any of these questions. What is your point?

Perhaps you have your organized religion glasses on. Such will likely have to be removed in order for relevance to be seen beyond what religion reveals.
Meantime, I am confident that their are those personalities among the readership, who do see the relevance of my questions, re the point being made.

The fruit goes wherever YHVH propels it to. On Water or on Land, it's all the same thing going on...

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #75]

Q: Why would any personality in communion with YHVH require something [icons] outside of their self to remind them they are in communion with YHVH?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #76]

I do not see the relevance of any of these questions. What is your point?

...The fruit goes wherever YHVH propels it to. On Water or on Land, it's all the same thing going on...

Oh-kay.


Alrighty then.... well, thanks for sharing.