Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

[Eloi]

That's this topic about: Should ALL Christians partake of the symbols of Christ?

First idea: To whom did Christ tell that he was making a covenant with, so they will be kings and judges?

Luke 22:24 However, there also arose a heated dispute among them over which one of them was considered to be the greatest. 25 But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors. 26 You, though, are not to be that way. But let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering. 27 For which one is greater, the one dining or the one serving? Is it not the one dining? But I am among you as the one serving.
28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

Second idea: If during the great tribulation Jesus separates sheep from goats according to what humans did to their brothers, who would be his brothers, and who would be the sheep selected for having treated them well? (Matt. 25:31-46).

Matt. 25:31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ ...

[Eddie Ramos]

That's this topic about: Should ALL Christians partake of the symbols of Christ?

First idea: To whom did Christ tell that he was making a covenant with, so they will be kings and judges?

Luke 22:24 However, there also arose a heated dispute among them over which one of them was considered to be the greatest. 25 But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors. 26 You, though, are not to be that way. But let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering. 27 For which one is greater, the one dining or the one serving? Is it not the one dining? But I am among you as the one serving.
28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

Second idea: If during the great tribulation Jesus separates sheep from goats according to what humans did to their brothers, who would be his brothers, and who would be the sheep selected for having treated them well? (Matt. 25:31-46).

Matt. 25:31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ ...

Your initial title question is unclear at best (at least to me), but your 2 other questions I can address.
"First Idea": The disciples of Christ are a picture of those who are Christ's sheep (or a picture of the true children of God). But, as the scriptures make clear, not everyone who called himself a disciple was actually a sheep of the shepherd, or a true child of God. We know this because of this passage:

John 6:59–66 (KJV 1900)
These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. (about eating his flesh and drinking his blood)
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you (disciples) that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

But not every disciple left Christ. 12 remained because they were chosen by God, yet even in these 12 that remained, one of them was a devil (Judas) because he was chosen for a specific task.

John 6:67–71 (KJV 1900)
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

These are those (the 11) who continued with Christ in his temptations. But the reason they continued with him was not because of anything in them individually, but it was because they were chosen of God. It's because it was given to them of the Father to come unto Christ. So, the spiritual picture is that since the disciples represent all the true believers, what Christ says to them in Luke 22:28-30, applies to all the true children of God, as it is the children of God who were to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. And the nation of Israel is used to represent the earthly church which God established to replace the nation of Israel as the stewards of the gospel.

"Second Idea": First, Jesus does not separate the sheep from the goats during the great tribulation period, he's doing it now during the day of judgment (after the tribulation). And the separation is not based on their own good works, but on the works Christ preformed in saving them. After salvation, the children of God (the sheep) do good works, not to earn a higher reward or to remain in the fold, but to show their love towards God in saving them. So, when Christ (who always spoke in parables) makes the statement about the separation of the sheep from the goats, the sheep are those who have done the works which are pleasing to God, namely, the preaching of the gospel of salvation. When the gospel of salvation reached the ears of an elect child of God, then the feeding, and giving drink, and clothing are all pictures of becoming saved through the gospel. The feeding of the hungry is a parable of the feeding of those who hunger after righteousness. The giving of drink typifies the water of the gospel. And the clothing typifies the fact that salvation has taken place and we're no longer naked (meaning our shame (sin) has been covered). So, this whole passage has to do with those who went out to preach the gospel during the day of salvation in order that the remaining of God's elect would become saved, as well as feeding those who have become saved with the meat of God's word. Also, Jesus tells us who his brothers are:

Mark 3:33–35 (KJV 1900)
And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? 34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

[JehovahsWitness]

That's this topic about: Should ALL Christians partake of the symbols of Christ?

I don't think most Christians (much less people in general) know what the "emblems" are, much less what they represent. In my experience most Christians think you should drink the wine if you love Jesus and not drink it if you dont.

I have never met a non Witness that even acknowledges there are various different covenants in play.




RELATED POSTS

To what did the ransom correspond?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 14#p852214

Why is there a need for atonement in biblical theology ?
viewtopic.php?p=1042433#p1042433

[Eloi]

Every year, on the day that corresponds to Nisan 14 of the Jewish calendar, the JW commemorate the death of Jesus in the way that he instituted the day of his death: we pass from hand to hand the bread that represents his body and the wine that represents his blood. We JWs do not eat and drink from these emblems (wine and bread) in a general way but, only those among us who consider that they have a hope of going to heaven with Jesus participate (eat and drink)... Meanwhile, the rest observe and pass the emblems from hand to hand without eating or drinking, and thus thank Jesus' sacrifice while sharing with those who feel that hope of going to heaven, which is different from the hope of the immense most of the JWs to live in the terrestrial paradise as human beings of flesh and blood.

This year the celebration will take place on April 4 after it starts to get dark, and the public invitation can be found here https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/memorial/

Although only about 20,000 of the JWs ate and drank of these emblems during the memorial last year, the diferent denominations of Christendom teach their members that they should ALL eat of the bread and drink of the wine. There are even some religious leaders that practice this celebration several times every year.

Considering that the calling of certain people to that future is a different covenant that God and Jesus specifically make with those people individually ... the question of this topic has to do with whether all Christians should partake of the emblems, or should only certain people who receive God's call to be brothers of Christ in heaven instead of living in the earthly paradise in the future like most humans will.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Eloi in post #1]

You make some very good points in your OP. I agree.....the only ones who partake of the emblems are the anointed Christians who will rule with Christ in heaven after the Great Tribulation. It is with them that Jesus made a covenant, not the "other sheep."

[tam]

Peace to you,

That's this topic about: Should ALL Christians partake of the symbols of Christ?

All who love Christ should eat the bread and drink the wine that mean the body and blood of Christ.

Why?

John 14:15

If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Whose commands will we keep if we love Christ?

HIS commands.

John 14:23

"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

Whose word will we keep if we love Christ?

HIS word.


No need to take my word for anything though. Christ answers the question in the OP Himself (John 6):

I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

“Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

First idea: To whom did Christ tell that he was making a covenant with, so they will be kings and judges?

A - Did Christ say only those with whom I make a covenant may eat and drink? Are those the words that He spoke above at John 6? Or is that an idea that men have come up with?

B - Christ commanded the apostles to eat and to drink and to keep doing that in remembrance of Him, correct? LATER, Christ gave the apostles the command to teach the disciples to obey EVERYTHING that HE had commanded them (the apostles), correct?

So where is there room for someone to step in and override the command of the Son of God?

Luke 22:24 However, there also arose a heated dispute among them over which one of them was considered to be the greatest. 25 But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors. 26 You, though, are not to be that way. But let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering. 27 For which one is greater, the one dining or the one serving? Is it not the one dining? But I am among you as the one serving.
28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

Christ said these words to the apostles with Him. But you believe these words apply to more than just the twelve apostles, do you not?

Second idea: If during the great tribulation Jesus separates sheep from goats according to what humans did to their brothers, who would be his brothers, and who would be the sheep selected for having treated them well? (Matt. 25:31-46).

Just a quick point: the separation of the sheep and goats takes place after Christ returns (and so, after the tribulation is ended, having been cut short). It is right there in the quote (I know the WTS has changed their teaching on the timing a couple of times, but it occurs after Christ returns and gathers the nations before Him):

Matt. 25:31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ ...

To answer your questions (though this has nothing to do with who may eat or drink. Christ tells us outright that anyone may eat, that whoever eats and drinks of His flesh and blood has life in them):

His brothers are Christians (but one might do well to keep in mind that even a least one may include His brothers in the flesh). Even if one cannot accept that, we are supposed to do those things listed in the parable for everyone anyway (feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick or imprisoned, give to the one in need, give to the one who asks of you, forgive, be merciful toward, etc).

The sheep are non-Christians** (from all kinds of backgrounds - atheist, agnostic, various religious people, etc) who did good (fed those who were hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick or imprisoned, etc) to even a least one of His brothers, unknowingly doing good to Christ in the process. In the account they do not even REALIZE that they are doing such things for Christ. It is like when one of the biblical writers reminded people to continue to show hospitality to strangers, because in doing so, they may be showing hospitality to angels without even realizing it.

The sheep are showing that they do the requirements of the law (love) NATURALLY (Romans 2.)

From the thread "A Good God would not send a decent atheist to hell":

viewtopic.php?p=731804#p731804


(**Christians - the brothers of Christ - can and should do those things as well of course. But in this case, Christians have already been caught up to Christ, and they are counted as the brothers of Christ.)


###

All that being said, neither idea 1 nor idea 2 even suggests that certain Christians should not eat or drink the bread and wine that mean the flesh and blood of Christ. For the answer to that question, it should be very very simple:

Christ said that anyone may eat. He said that unless one eats His flesh and drinks His blood, they have no life in them. He said that WHOEVER eats His flesh and drinks His blood a) has eternal life, b) remains in Him and Him in them, and c) that He will raise them up on the last day. He also gave the command to the apostles to eat and to drink and to continue doing that (eating and drinking) in remembrance of Him. He then told those same apostles to 'go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to obey EVERYTHING I have commanded you."

Not 'teach them to obey some things' I have commanded you. Teach them to be EVERYTHING I have commanded you.



"This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Listen to Him."



But the most important reason (for me at least) is out of love for Him. He said do this. I love Him. I believe Him. I will do as He has said.


May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear to get a sense of these things from the One who is the Truth. And may anyone who wishes them be given ears to ear so as to hear the Spirit and the bride say to you, "Come!" May anyone who thirsts and anyone who wishes, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of life!!"



Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ Jaheshua,
tammy

[Eloi]

No human being who lived before Christ participated in any celebration of the death of Christ, so they neither ate nor drank from the memorial emblems. However, many of them were faithful servants of Jehovah who are going to be resurrected and live forever, even though they did not participate in anything related with the memorial of Jesus' death.

Jesus was a sacrifice to Jehovah, and the first result of that sacrifice is related to those who are to reign with him in heaven.

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

All who are not to reign with him, and yet live forever on earth, like God's servants of old, are beneficiaries of that arrangement, but not direct participants from the beginning.

It is easy to understand if we remember that some of the sacrifices offered on the temple altar and in front of the ark could only be eaten by the priests, while other less special ones could also be eaten by the families that offered them. Likewise, the first beneficiaries of the annual sacrifice made by the high priest were his descendants, then the rest of the priests and then the people of Israel. Those procedures had a meaning related to the sacrifice of Jesus.

[tam]

Peace to you,

All of Israel ate the manna (of which Christ is the TRUE manna from heaven). All of Israel drank from the same spiritual rock (that is Christ).


Peace again.

[Eloi]

As said, some of Jesus followers are to be kings in heavens, others won't, and these others will be subjects of that kingdom.

Only the kings and priests are allow to participate of the emblems.

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

In those words of the heavenly creatures, the people who are not going to reign with Jesus even if they will be beneficiaries of that kingdom and priesthood that will be exercised in heaven are not mentioned. That is why they say: "they are to rule as kings over the earth". They will reign NOT OVER AN EMPTY EARTH but over a planet inhabited by the beneficiaries of that sacrifice.

In Israel, not everyone could be a priest, and not whoever could be a king.

[tam]

Peace to you,

As said, some of Jesus followers are to be kings in heavens, others won't, and these others will be subjects of that kingdom.

Just saying something doesn't make it true, Eloi.

Only the kings and priests are allow to participate of the emblems.

See above for what Christ said on the matter of who can eat and drink.

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

In those words of the heavenly creatures, the people who are not going to reign with Jesus even if they will be beneficiaries of that kingdom and priesthood that will be exercised in heaven are not mentioned. That is why they say: "they are to rule as kings over the earth". They will reign NOT OVER AN EMPTY EARTH but over a planet inhabited by the beneficiaries of that sacrifice.

Already responded to in the first post I put on this thread.

(please note that I never suggested that anyone would be reigning over an empty earth; I believe that is made clear in my post, but if not, certainly it is made clear in the link that I posted in my post. Christians reign with Christ in His Kingdom as kings and priests for at least a thousand years. But more than Christians are invited into the Kingdom and receive eternal life.)

In Israel, not everyone could be a priest, and not whoever could be a king.

But WHOEVER eats and drinks (the flesh and blood of Christ) remains in Him and has eternal life.

At least, according to Christ.

Personally, I will take His word over the word of any man or religious group.


And again, in Israel, EVERYONE ate the manna (of which Christ is the true manna from heaven) and drank from the spiritual rock (that is Christ).



Peace again to you.