WHEN DID CHRIST GO INTO HELL?

[Eddie Ramos]

To be more specific, my question for this thread is at what point between Christ's death on the cross on Friday afternoon in 33 A.D., and his resurrection Sunday morning, did his soul go into hell (the grave)? Doesn't the Bible tell us that his soul went with the thief to paradise that very day?

Luke 23:42–43 (KJV 1900)
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

But we know that his soul was indeed in hell (the grave) because of this passage:

Psalm 16:10 (KJV 1900)
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell;
Neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

And rather than responding with what scholars think or what the general consensus is, please open and use the scriptures to provide the answers, as the scriptures are the authority of the children of God. My goal here is to show that there is no way to harmonize these two scriptures with the Bible if we believe that Christ died only once, at the cross in 33 A.D. But if we can see that he died twice (once before the world began and then again at the cross in 33 A.D.) then we have perfect harmony with the scriptures.

[historia]

The Bible says he was bodily resurrected.

Where does it say that?

This is entailed in the word resurrection itself. To a first-century Jew or pagan, "resurrection" meant a return to bodily life.

If an ancient person heard that someone had died and became a spirit, they simply would not have called that resurrection.

Do you have any evidence that pagans, who believed in immortal souls, also believed in some kind of bodily resurrection?

No, nor did I say they did.

I assume you don't believe in the immortality of the soul, yet you know what that concept means, right? Apply the same thing to ancient pagans and resurrection. They knew what the concept meant, even if they didn't believe in it.

[Eloi]

The Bible says he was bodily resurrected.

Where does it say that?

This is entailed in the word resurrection itself. To a first-century Jew or pagan, "resurrection" meant a return to bodily life.

If an ancient person heard that someone had died and became a spirit, they simply would not have called that resurrection.

Do you have any evidence that pagans, who believed in immortal souls, also believed in some kind of bodily resurrection?

No, nor did I say they did.

I assume you don't believe in the immortality of the soul, yet you know what that concept means, right? Apply the same thing to ancient pagans and resurrection. They knew what it meant, even if they didn't believe in it.

I believe that DEATH is the opposite to LIFE, like the Bible teaches.

I consider, based on what the Scriptures say, that those two beliefs (some inmortal soul and resurrection) are contradictory to each other, since the Bible calls DEATH as LOOSING THE SOUL.

Mat. 10:39 Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it.

[historia]

[Replying to Eloi in post #22]

None of that is relevant to the point I'm making. Try to stay on topic.

[Eloi]

[Replying to Eloi in post #22]

None of that is relevant to the point I'm making. Try to stay on topic.

I clarified to you what I believe, since you talk about it. You did assume what I don't believe, and I told you what I DO believe.

A pagan does not believe in any resurrection; you are especulating what they may have believe. Pagans and resurrection don't go together in the same sentence.

Resurrection is about getting back LIFE, not about getting back a body. It is truth that for anyone life implies a body, but for anyone, a spirit has a body too, like angels. If there is a spirit body in mind, no one would see necessary a body of flesh. For pagans, the gods have bodies, and they consider the soul as an invisible body.

[JehovahsWitness]

The Bible says he was bodily resurrected.

Where does it say that?

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don ... t_1352.cfm

There are some who believe that Jesus did not have a resurrected body, but was only a spirit. However, the Scripture is very clear on the issue - the resurrection of Jesus was in bodily form. Early in His ministry, Jesus predicted that He would come back from the dead in a body. He said.

Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then the Jews said, 'It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?' But he was speaking of the temple of his body. Therefore, when he had risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this to them (John 2:19-22).

The Scripture is clear that it was the body of Jesus that was to be resurrected. Jesus refuted the idea that He was some disembodied spirit when He appeared to His disciples after His death.

The Similarities Between The Earthly And Resurrected Body

There were a number of similarities between Christ's earthly body and His resurrected body. They include the following.

1. People Recognized Him After His Resurrection

Jesus was recognizable after His resurrection.

And when he had said this, he showed them both his hands and his side. The disciples therefore rejoiced when they saw the Lord (John 20:20).

It was the same Jesus who had been crucified on the cross.

2. Jesus Talked With People After He Was Raised From The Dead

Jesus talked to people after His resurrection.

Now as they said these things, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, 'Peace to you.' But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. And he said to them, 'Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? (Luke 24:36-38).

3. Jesus Invited People To Touch Him

The disciples were frightened with Jesus' appearance, since they assumed they had seen a spirit. Therefore He invited them to touch His body to see if it were real.

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.' When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet (Luke 24:39,40).

This proves that Jesus had a genuine body - He was not some disembodied spirit.

4. Jesus Showed His Scars To The Disciples

When Jesus appeared to the disciples in the upper room Thomas was not among them. Thomas told the other disciples that He would not believe in the resurrection until he could see Jesus with his own eyes and touch His wounds. The Gospel of John records what happened after that.

After eight days his disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be with you." Then he said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see my hands; and reach here your hand and put it into my side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing." Thomas answered and said to him, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:26-28).

On this occasion Thomas was challenged by Jesus to see if He were indeed real. The doubter immediately realized that Jesus had come back from the dead in a resurrected body.

5. Jesus Ate Food With His Resurrected Body

He had the capacity, though not the need, to eat.

But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, he said to them, 'Have you any food here?' So they gave him a piece of broiled fish and some honeycomb. And he took it and ate it in their presence (Luke 24:41-43).

Simon Peter later told a group of Gentiles.

And we are witnesses of all the things he did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. And they also put him to death by hanging him on a cross. "God raised him up on the third day, and granted that he should become visible, not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us, who ate and drank with Him after he arose from the dead (Acts 10:39-41).

He ate food in their presence, showing that His resurrection was indeed bodily.

6. He Was Able To Breathe Out

Scripture also records that Jesus breathed out.

And when he had said this, he breathed out, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit" (John 20:23).

Summary

From the accounts in Scripture we can see that Jesus' resurrection was bodily. We discover this in two ways. First is Jesus own testimony. Jesus made it clear that he was not a disembodied spirit. Second, the things that Jesus did. He did things only a person having a body can do. Jesus walked, He showed His disciples the prints of the crucifixion on His body, He breathed and ate. Consequently both his words and his deeds testify to the fact that His resurrection was bodily.

You said the bible said of Jesus "he was bodily resurrected" so I expect to see thewords "he was bodily resurrected" in a bible quote. I see no such quotation. Did you really mean : the way I understand or interpret certain scriptures I believe them to mean that Jesus was bodily resurrected? Is that what you meant to say ?



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

The Bible says he was bodily resurrected.

Where does it say that?

This is entailed in the word resurrection itself. ...

How so?

Resurrection

[ 1,,G386, anastasis ]
denotes
(I) a raising up," or "rising" (ana, "up," and histemi, "to cause to stand") - VINES

[Eloi]

About the topic:

the event that Jesus talk about to the man by his side when dying, was the paradise and his Kingdom;
... the place where his "soul" went at his death was Hades/Sheol, where he remained until the third day at his resurrection,
... and where he went to, to talk to other spirits was Tartarus (1 Pet. 3:18-20; 2 Pet. 2:4)

So, there is a need to clarify the three events and places, since they are three different things and occur at three different times.

[boatsnguitars]

You said the bible said of Jesus "he was bodily resurrected" so I expect to see thewords "he was bodily resurrected" in a bible quote.

That's on you. The Bible doesn't mention any English word. Sorry to disappoint. The Bible also doesn't say one shouldn't rape kids, but while I think it should have been explicit about that (given the actions of the clergy), you'd probably argue it says it 'in so many words'.

Classic Christian move. So disingenuous.

So are you claiming the Christian who wrote the explanation I linked is a liar, a lunatic, or Lord?

You know, let's see you and Eloi discuss this, and when you come to a final conclusion, let me know. No fighting though! We don't want a repeat of the Christian violence you guys are so fond of authorizing for yourselves!

[JehovahsWitness]

You said the bible said of Jesus "he was bodily resurrected" so I expect to see thewords "he was bodily resurrected" in a bible quote.

That's on you. The Bible doesn't mention any English word.

Well then it doesnt say "he was bodily resurrected" which are all English words aren't they...

The Bible says he was bodily resurrected.

What language is that?




JW

[historia]

A pagan does not believe in any resurrection

No one said they did. You are simply confused here.