How can Christianity be the new covenant?

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postroad
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How can Christianity be the new covenant?

Post #1

Post by postroad »

The two concepts are mutually exclusive.

Jeremiah 32:38-40 New International Version (NIV)

38 They will be my people, and I will be their God. 39 I will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear me and that all will then go well for them and for their children after them. 40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me.

Compared to.


Micah 7:1-6 New International Version (NIV)

Israel’s Misery
7 What misery is mine!
I am like one who gathers summer fruit
at the gleaning of the vineyard;
there is no cluster of grapes to eat,
none of the early figs that I crave.
2 The faithful have been swept from the land;
not one upright person remains.
Everyone lies in wait to shed blood;
they hunt each other with nets.
3 Both hands are skilled in doing evil;
the ruler demands gifts,
the judge accepts bribes,
the powerful dictate what they desire—
they all conspire together.
4 The best of them is like a brier,
the most upright worse than a thorn hedge.
The day God visits you has come,
the day your watchmen sound the alarm.
Now is the time of your confusion.
5 Do not trust a neighbor;
put no confidence in a friend.
Even with the woman who lies in your embrace
guard the words of your lips.
6 For a son dishonors his father,
a daughter rises up against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies are the members of his own household.


Jesus claims both.

New International Version (NIV)

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.�

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[a] 21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table.


Matthew 10:34-36 New International Version (NIV)

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.

Luke 12:49-51 New International Version (NIV)

Not Peace but Division
49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.

Jesus weeps that he can't bring peace to Jerusalem.

Luke 19:41-43 New International Version (NIV)

41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side.

But it was deliberately hidden.

Matthew 13:10-13 New International Version (NIV)

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?�

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.


Acts 4:27-28 New International Version (NIV)

27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

Romans 11:6-8 New International Version (NIV)

6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.�l


How can this be when God promised to reverse the condition in the new covenant?

Jeremiah 24:6-7 New International Version (NIV)

6 My eyes will watch over them for their good, and I will bring them back to this land. I will build them up and not tear them down; I will plant them and not uproot them. 7 I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart.

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Post #41

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 40 by postroad]

Textual support might mean something different to you. You certainly are posting a lot of Bible so a lot of text but not much support. Tbh i think you think your posts are self evident.

Suppose we agree that God instituted a new covenant with the remnant of Israel. Then what happened to it?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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postroad
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Post #42

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 41 by Wootah]

I don't believe in any God. I don't believe that any remnant was forgiven or made a covenant with any God.

I simply cross examine the evidence in order to determine if it can sustain the claims.

You aren't even basing your claims on the evidence of Scriptures but are appealing to emotions and your own feelings.

You wanted to debate a biblical contradiction but you won't use any text showing how it can be resolved.

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Post #43

Post by Wootah »

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 41 by Wootah]

I don't believe in any God. I don't believe that any remnant was forgiven or made a covenant with any God.

I simply cross examine the evidence in order to determine if it can sustain the claims.

You aren't even basing your claims on the evidence of Scriptures but are appealing to emotions and your own feelings.

You wanted to debate a biblical contradiction but you won't use any text showing how it can be resolved.
You are quoting text and have a belief on its meaning surely?

When are you going to start cross examining?

Normally, the person that has the contradiction posts evidence and then we debate it.

Maybe this topic is too wide. I feared as much at the start. What should we do? Do you want to restate your contradiction or do you want me to look again ar your opening post to find it?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post #44

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 43 by Wootah]

I did point out the contradiction. you haven't debated. You are simply proselytizing.

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Post #45

Post by Wootah »

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 43 by Wootah]

I did point out the contradiction. you haven't debated. You are simply proselytizing.
Explaining how Jesus is the new covenant is my side of the debate topic ....
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

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postroad
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Post #46

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 45 by Wootah]

Perhap you could explain why God saw fit to exclude the addressees to that new covenant?

Jeremiah 31:28-31 New International Version (NIV)

28 Just as I watched over them to uproot and tear down, and to overthrow, destroy and bring disaster, so I will watch over them to build and to plant,� declares the Lord. 29 “In those days people will no longer say,

‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.

31 “The days are coming,� declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.

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Post #47

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 46 by postroad]
Perhap you could explain why God saw fit to exclude the addressees to that new covenant?
Line 31 in your own quote is pretty clear:

31 “The days are coming,� declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post #48

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 47 by Wootah]

How many generations will he send to hell before then?


Matthew 27:25
All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!�

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Post #49

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 48 by postroad]

It seems like bucket loads. The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few.

Are you even trying to be on topic?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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postroad
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Post #50

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 49 by Wootah]

I am on topic. I'm done with this thread

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